9 Tips for When Non-ADHD Spouses Just Can’t Cope Anymore

I have often said/thought if only he could see a video of himself, he would be SHOCKED.

I used to think the same way.  That if I could just record our life to show him.....  Lately though, I realize that would be useless.  He's gone from mostly denying to putting the blame on me.  He might admit he over reacted or was verbally abusive or whatever else, he might even apologize for it.  But then he justifies it by either putting the blame on me or pointing out what he perceives as a character flaw on my part.  A really good example of this is the day before Christmas Eve.  He went out bar hopping with his friends and I was pretty upset about it.  Especially when I seen how much money he spent (earlier in the week he had made a big deal out of me spending $75 at a bargain store on Christmas gifts for our children, while my friend was in the room).  In his mind, his actions were acceptable and I wouldn't be so upset if I weren't so materialistic and selfish.  I didn't think I was being materialistic or selfish, I was actually thinking along the lines of "it's better to give than receive" and putting others before yourself.  Spending money he could have used for his family (who have helped us out tremendously in the past year) or his children, on booze was acceptable to him.  He further solidified his thoughts by telling me that until he spends more on himself than what we spend in food for a year, that I have no right to say anything.  What he didn't realize is that last year, he did exactly that. 

I believe with my DH, there's a level of narcissism that accompanies his ADHD.  His word is law, because it's HIS word.

We ADDer's have issues with Short Term Memory moving to Long Term too quickly or disappearing altogether :-? The reason I know about being So Sure of a memory is because I recall it very well, the problem is it can be like the Cliff's Notes of the conversation. The bullet points with detail missing and that can make a huge in the future discussion.

I would Hate this, but if you have your phone on you, just record the conversation. Then if it comes up again, you have Real Memory of the conversation of Both of you. A little un-fair because the ADDer would not know he was being recorded. 

I can tell you that after being treated for my ADD with Adderall, my memory has improved quite a bit. There is hope :)

But what’s even more frightening to me, as I have often thought the same thing about videotaping what actually happens, is that he won’t see what’s happening on the video in the same manner that he won’t see what’s happening in real life. You know?

Thanks Melissa for reminding me that these things are all valid and that I am allowed to be 'selfish' sometimes, and I am allowed to speak my mind and my feelings too.  I often find that it is just so exhausting to have such a regime for basic communication that I end up not bothering though.  My H is soooo argumentative (although he insists it's me of course) that broaching any subject, even later when things have cooled down, usually result in another fight - he just picks up where he left off which I find interesting that he remembers that well enough, but not other important things day to day.  I know he would be shocked to hear himself when he goes off, but I don't think he would even listen to a recording if I did it, even if it was just to keep the facts straight.

Apart from visiting this site or receiving counselling, are there other things we can do for ourselves to alleviate the stress and exhaustion of living with an ADHD partner? It's such hard work that I quite often forget to include myself when I'm making sure the whole family has what they need.

Wow.  It may be in part that misery loves company - but I am so reassured to not be alone in my experience with my (suspected) ADD spouse.  

My husband always insists that the problem is with me:  it's not that he is forgetful - it's that I have a freakishly good memory; it's not that he is messy and disorganized - it's that I am extremely Type A in my need for order; it's not that he is overly-sensitive - it's that I'm callous; it's not that he's financially irresponsible - it's that I am overly anxious, etc, etc.  In disagreements, he too will create a version of the truth (which he believes to be true, I think) to reinforce his argument.  I think you and I are probably asking the same question:  "How can we reach any sort of resolution, when my spouse's recall/interpretation of events is not based on fact?" 

I have often contemplated carrying a mini tape-recorder, to replay his own words for him (or a therapist).  I think he could benefit greatly from seeing a therapist on his own, but the thought of him taking advice based on his distorted account of events scares me, so I have not encouraged it.

His behaviour with me is so different from the behaviour that everyone else sees (he won't help me with the simplest of tasks, but would help a stranger move a piano) that I've learned to keep my complaints to myself - because everyone thinks he's so wonderful and charming.  I am so tired of always being the bad guy.

He's agreed to being tested for ADD (if only to appease me) but has made only token gestures to inquire with his physician (and made a joke of it at that, saying "My wife will kill me if I don't ask, but she's wondering if I might have ADD").  That was a year and a half ago...

Oyy, reading this made me empathize so much! my fiance just found out about his ADHD, so we are taking the necessary steps to improve. But I still struggle with times where he would tell me I said things, when I know I didnt. Or he would say things and completely deny saying them. All of those instances come to me being "out of my mind" or selfish, or unable to listen, or how I only care about myself, or sometimes more simply put... "Im a C***"

Its so frustrating. And sometimes I find the strength to let it go, but other times I can help but yell at him. And then I feel weak. 

I just found this forum and feel so much better that I am not crazy! and that our problems are not because we are falling out of love, or that we arent right for eachother. But that it is just symptoms of ADHD rearing their ugly heads.

I love him so much. He is my partner in life and in business, and I am dedicated to being the source of strength for him. and I think sharing experience is definitely helping, so thanks to you and everyone!

I get what you're saying about not seeing what is happening. Not seeing anything, like how pissed I am, how tired i am, why I'm so tired, how many chores need to be done, how he just can't get onboard with any schedule of chores, how he thinks he only needs to do that chore one time and then he's done, blah, blah, blah.  Work, sleep, and TV is all he does, unless I write him a list, but with his dyslexia, he can't seem to read the list. I don't know anymore.  And now he's exhibiting symptoms of dementia.  No, he is not diagnosed, and no, he is not medicated.  Says there's nothing wrong with him.  He just flows through his days, while I struggle through mine.  

This is where Melissa and other ADHD advisors just don't get it. Being around unsafe people makes you unsafe.  Period.

There is no way a rational person can ignore the antics of an unsafe spouse who is engaging in doomed financial practices, unsafe driving, pack-rat sloppy living and/or devious sexual liaisons that could very well bring a disease into the marriage bed. 

Im ready to leave him, he also asks for his space, it just ridiculous because he has more time away from me than i do from him. My husband read the book and then was on denial of his ADHD. Medication and marriage therapy help but doesnt cure it. Their brain is wired differently. I think you should take care of yourself so you can take care of your kids. you are not alone *hugs* 

Shiela, i read your post and i felt myself practically in tears for you and feelings of anger towards your husband only because i feel the mistreatment you are feeling and how it's affecting you as did I feel same kind of things from my husband. Although it is the symptoms of ADHD talking, there's no excuse and you shouldn't accept it. Its his responsibility to get treatment if he wants to stay married to you or even deserves to be with someone who is supportive and loving as you are being to him. Sometimes you need to shake him a little and make him relaize that he could very well lose you if he doesn't do something about his problem.

Get out NOW!!!  You may be able to get it annulled.

Hi,

You wrote:  I've also asked my partner to make sure I'm attending before she starts talking, and she said she doesn't want to do this because she doesn't want to treat me like a child.  Sounds like she'd also like to treat you like someone without ADHD.   If you need X so she can get Y, the refusal to do it is just not accepting reality.  If you're willing to put more effort in paying attention, once you know she needs it, then she ought to be able to come halfway.  And:  or is this one of those things where "you are patient or you are not".  She can learn to be more patient, but it sounds like she'd rather not.  I have to continually remind myself not to get frustrated when a 60 second conversation goes off the rails, and slow down and repeat.  But of course it's possible.  When I want maximum attention (notice I didn't say full :)  ) I touch him, say "honey?" wait until he changes gears, be concise, ask for confirmation of what he heard and that works so much better than just being starting "cold" and rattling away like I might while talking to my kids or friends.  I would really encourage you to find a way to spend time with your wife when you are medicated, instead of saving the down time for her.  My guy won't take anything, so I just have to catch him when he's well-rested and hungry.  He'll pay attention when he thinks there might be dinner in it for him. ;)  She might want to learn to better read the cues you give off when you've tuned out... One question for you, though.  When you become aware she wants/needs you to "attend" do you stop any other activities that may be going on? Turn off TV (NOT just mute), put down smart phone, turn away from computer, etc?  You might think, since you are "aware" for a moment that she's talking to you, that you can resist refocusing on those things, but you really can't.  Also, take her hand or touch her arm while she's talking, if she isn't doing that with you.  The physical can help you connect better in your brain, too.   Another idea for staying "connected" when the lack of medication is present... DO something together that you both enjoy.  A game?  A home improvement project? The dishes?  If you are both engaged in a cut-throat game of Yahtzee, YOU will be less likely to drift off, the conversation will tend to be about "fun" topics, you might even laugh and flirt while you trash-talk your opponent.  That can feel very good, even if you really can't pay attention to the story of the bad day at the office.  And lastly, does your wife know that men, in general, without ADHD, are bored to tears with most of our stories?  :)  Best wishes.

the best way to talk to my adhd partner is when he is not distracted by anything, like tv, cell phone, tablet, computer, radio, other people, not doing an activity pretty much not alot of time but i ask for his attention and and time limit, like can i get your attention for 5 - 10 mins it's important and i am told by my adhd husband to make it short cuz he hates long conversations, get to the point and don't repeat.  So to avoid getting interrupted while im speaking cuz i may be taking longer than he is capable of listening.  I tell him what i need and then ask him if he understood and sometimes ask him to repeat what I said or what he understood from the conversation.  But all conversations are a struggle, cuz he will not give me any feedback, his opinion or comment when I want to engage in a stimulating topic cuz he loses track and his always off topic and then I end up confused and fustrated.  So it's better to keep it simple and short and to the point to avoid an arguement.

Hello,

Being ADHD, and knowledgeable on the disorder, brain-mind functioning, AND relationships, I'd definitely recommend learning.  I'm not trained in this area, but have done a huge amount of reading authored by Doctors, PhDs, and other accredited health care professionals.

I can say there are people in my life who are as honest as the day is long, but sometimes seem to make stuff up as they go along.  Another annoyance is the rationalizing and excuses to absolve anyone  or anything that appears to need one.  Nothing terrible, mind you, but disconcerting. 

OK, now, manipulation is NOT automatic in anyone, but if the person was "gifted" in this area they'd be a 6 or better on a 1-10 scale of ADHD. Really, I'll go back to knowledge as the best fog-clearing, and BS meter around.  I can spot a guilt trip, or any type of manipulation a mile away.  Things like using words including "should", "always", "never" might be good tip-offs.  Using the word "you" at the beginning of a statement can be a signal as well (verbal finger pointing). Yelling or bullying of ANY kind is an immediate buzzer for me.  Being a guy, it's the crying that get me all kerfugled. 

Seriously, the more you understand the emotional workings of people, the mind, and relationships the better you are in any interactive communication.  My local library is fantastic, because I can get electronic info as well as a huge selection of books online.  It's a good investment in your time, because you have the knowledge and skills for the rest of your life.

All the best.

My guy has developed three major "coping" strategies for times when his ADD causes him to, in his opinion or someone else's, "mess up".  I call them the Three Stooges:  Deny, Deflect and Distort.  As in "I didn't do that", "it's actually you", and "You took it wrong".    These are all things he does so he doesn't feel like crap.  He is still in denial about ADD... so he's spent 50+ years wondering why he just can't keep it all together as "easily" as other people.  In order to not feel like he's failing, he denies, deflects and distorts.  For years  I thought I was crazy.... except I wasn't crazy with anybody else.  Anyway.  I guess I could characterize the use of these strategies as "manipulating" because he was always trying to shift the blame or even shift reality.  I have never felt like he was intentionally manipulating me... but another personality type might well do so.  I would have to say manipulation isn't a feature of ADD... but it could be a crappy coping mechanism for someone with ADD.  

What came to my mind while reading your post were 2 books about male-female communications and relating; the first is "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" by John Gray, and "He said - She Said", by Lillian Glass (may be hard to find).  One very important thing I took away from Gray's very popular book was that men relate completely different than women (my layman's view).  I think of women like waves of emotion, where as men are like a piston action of push-pull.

I can remember resisting any kind of emotional squabbles when my ADHD was flaming, because I'd approach it logically, and she would approach it very differently from her feelings.  I recall one long and drawn-out discussion that ended when she said "it's not just that, it's everything!!!"  Sorry to say, I just started laughing and did not stop for awhile. I can also state that Gray's idea of gaining or losing points was true, because I completely emptied my points bank account that day.

One thing I have learned is the importance of consequences.  I let people know, ADHD or not, well in advance, what will occur if a particular behavior continues, or a commitment not kept, so if the time comes when the feces hits the fan, my follow through with actions can not be a surprise.  Works well for me, and gives the other party an option to opt in or out.

Maybe doing some reading of related books or blogs could be very beneficial?

Take care & breath deep.

Dear F1rewoman:

I swear I could have written your post word for word until it  got to the earning a masters degree part.  I do not know how you did it in that atmosphere.  I would love to continue my education, get a job etc but I am so depressed I have all I can do to function each day.   I too have tried multiple things--I would love to get a divorce or just get him out of the house for a year but I cannot afford it and he will not move out.  We went that route in the past and he spent all his money getting revenge on me with shark lawyers--and I almost lost complete custody of my daughter.  I feel like I am buried alive and there are no new sources of help for me, I have exhausted everything I could find in my area and on the internet.  I wish to God I could send him to an anger camp if it existed.

You guys need to research how ADHD affects emotional regulation. Maybe if she learns that while her feelings are right for the situation her brain makes the feelings too damned strong like stronger than they should be. I can't always control it but knowing that my ADHD brain will make feel things much stronger than is warranted can help me to take a few deep breaths and try to calm down.  In my family our counselor is having us work on acknowledging the emotions and working together to calm down right away. Walking away doesn't work it WIILL escalate things and make it worse. Instead its got to be Okay we are upset I see that you are upset I totally get that, lets juts sit and hugs for a minute and when we are calmed down we can talk and not yell at each other. But both of you have to be willing to do try that together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cw8jHUkHiA

http://adhdvancouver.blogspot.com/2011/03/adhd-attention-deficit-hyperac...

http://www.adhdlibrary.org/library/social-functioning-and-emotion-regula...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110505103341.htm

I have a lot of links on ADHD bookmarked!

I completely agree with you, I am a very laid back easy going person who doesn't like drama and definitely hates to fight.  My boyfriend is always yelling at me and the rest of the world. Like you have have changed and my friends and more importantly ME hate that fact.  I was so happy to see this site, because it has reconfirmed that it's not me, and frankly it's not even him...it's just this ADHD thing that's tearing us both up.  I have recently asked him to move out because I'm not sure I can keep snapping in and out of being 'okay' from this.  I have become an emotional wreck and have forgotten what it means to smile and have a good time with anyone...how do you find happy again?

Sounds like you have some sort of Reverse Chore issue at your house. Going off to work is the EASY part! So you get do handle the entire household and childcare, but you are getting guilted into accepting the 24/7 job because you are only a P/T earner on top of the 24/7 F/T job??? When the spouse is Angry All the Time (Add or Non) there is not going to be a constructive conversation anyway. Who wants to talk about the Effing News?!?  ;)

You seem to be doing your part X10, how about a little E for Effort on his part, instead of drinks with colleagues??? My DW asks to do with with work friends about once a month or so and I'm always supportive, because maybe she will relax for a moment. I don't do this, because I'll just worry about who might show up, or how much I should drink, or how late is too late and end up more anxiety ridden than it's worth.

YOU are a Super-Woman! Don't believe anything else :)

Kevin,

You mentioned that you had a web site. What is it?

Also you mentioned that you had submitted a book for publishing. Has it been published? And if so, what is the book info so that I may get it.

Thanks,

Rick

As SO many here know, I'm almost three years post diagnosis and much that you describe sounds somewhat familiar. My surprise diagnosis explained most of my entire life of both successes and failures. I responded immediately and well to Adderall and have had therapy, a couple of couples therapy sessions with my DW's psychologist (They went well). I continue to read books, articles and read/respond to posts regarding ADD. I have posted several times about arguments, and if I may add my take on these it might make some sense. Adderall brought me out of a lifetime of ADD Fog (43 years) I was always the easy going, laid-back guy who always meant well, but frequently over-promised and fell short of my goals. A huge difference for me is I know SEE Body Language and Facial Expressions which I have missed all of my life. This is great! The problem is that I'm 43 years behind my class in this brand new language. Sometimes I react to things before there is an issue and it does not get ignored until my DW is So PO'd by my actions/inactions what she blows up at me to get attention. SO Tired of the Pearl Harbor surprise attack of the old days. The learning curve is slow, sometimes I over-react and under-react to others. My DW and I have discussed this learning curve. In the old days, she attacked and surprized me, I was caught off guard, felt guilty for missing something obvious to everyone but me, and shut down, hardly able to force out a single word. My DW would beg me to agree, disagree, tell to piss off, but anything other than silence or Y / N answers. Well, Adderall gave her that wish, and now I don't shut down and I stay far more calm and logical and she is having a hard time not always deciding who has the last word. THIS is a big change in our dynamic as a couple and still is evolving to this day.

The big issue for us is that my DW really does not believe in ADD or that it affected our marriage. ADD is just a reminder to her that my ADD diagnosis gave me the easy out for my past mistakes, the meds were a responding fast cure for me and the only side affect was that I got thin. I always get what I want, in other words. THIS is a real stall point, in my opinion, and I hope that my continued work to correct coping skills and communicate better will eventually convince her that ADD was/IS the elephant in the marriage.

Blaming you is a total coping mechanism from any ADDer's beginning. Feeling like there is FAR too much damage done to our relationship was/is still my worst fear. It is crapping timing that your DH's "Friend" is recently divorced and he is seeking attention as a stimulous for his brain, again another example of getting the dopamine our brains crave. Dangerous/Self Destructive behavior is a hallmark of ADD. HE has to realize the bad position he has put himself in. ADDer's have terrible filters for what we perceive as hurtful/not-hurtful, so letting you read transcripts of chats and venting poems may be a way he is trying to show honesty to you, but not having learned What sounds Hurtful. I'm not making excuses for him and I know how this must hurt you. I learned a long time ago that I needed to keep myself away from certain situations / people because I knew deep down that I could be one mistake away from a second failed marriage. Your DH may know "The Great Escape" as I've written about will not work for him and wants to be with you. He seems to have Very Poorly made his point that he wants the marriage to work. He may actually think you are the best thing that ever happened to him, but be scared to death that he has already Blown the marriage Up.

I hope things improve for you soon...    

nagging could cause him to vent emotionally elsewhere,don't even bother,"SAVE"your energy in to something you would gain from,start back to cook,and exercise,just be yourself,don't let him take away your mental stability,his own is already dysfunctional, and now your's would be too!!!,his "female" friend is going through a divorce and she is vulnerable right now,"he should "not" be in any type of contact with any ex's"no matter"who" they are(friend or no friend) that is not good at all"stop it immediately"an affair can come out of that!!! this is serious,it has happened before with non-ADHD people,including me with my daughter's Father and he was non-ADHD, and this situation is no different,but worse,where ADHD people tend to have addictive behavior's,only we are dealing with the ADHD non-focused/dysfunctional brain,the meds he is taking could have some side effects,maybe he should get one that suits him,he should try a different one.Don't waste your energy in nagging him about doing the(right) things they won't listen,I have been there,instead try talking to him and set up some boundaries starting with the EX.I know how having a short fuse could be,but we non-ADHD could control that,I have a short fuse also,but I have learnt how to control mines,we don't lack that simple thing between (impulse and action) where we would blurt out things, we are very fortunate to find the (pause) between that,I am very hopeful you could do that.

I hope that things work out for you

god bless

from:lovehurts.

Medications (Concerta and Vyvanse) made my husband VERY hostile and argumentative. If he wasn't like this before, maybe it would explain his being more argumentative. Honestly, my husband is typically laid back and the meds made him a lot more 'aggressive' with words and BLAMING. (everything went from "I don't want to hurt her, I have put her through enough" to "she's not doing a damn thing to help the marriage so why should I?" in just 2 weeks)

He is taking Straterra now, for about 2 months, and I see NONE of this...it is much better. 

Wow.... My life is yours. When I ask questions lately, I'm told to just let him be the man, and I should just be a woman and do the woman things like clean the house.... He is not sexist, but he is somehow threatened by any kind of question.  I asked "did you turn the cooler on. Or just the fan?"  Simple question, right? He began a tirade about how he knows wtf he's doing and I don't need to interfere with him and I should just let him be the man of the house!  I still have no idea where that came from... I am so tired of being afraid to say anything be ause it might set him off.  Yet if I stay quiet, he is suspicious that I'm thinking something secretive... Or I'm mad, or I'm thinking about someone else.  I can't win...

i work the same hours he does, I cook, I pay the bills, I help manage his appointments and refills for an unrelated medical treatment, I do laundry, I shop for food and household goods, I have a 13 year old so I take care of, and he's angry that our furniture got dusty.... My response? The grab a rag and dust it! 

I understand frustration at unbelievable levels... I have one real friend that I refuse to give up and she does her best to support me but she's tired of seeing me emotionally beaten down.  

I treasure these blogs because it gives me strength and hope to realize he's not just an asshole, and it's not just me... 

Deciding when enough is enough is my biggest challenge...  I still don't know, but I have more confidence in myself because of what I read here.... So just remember that you are a valuable person, too...

Hi janet, I fully hear and feel where you are at with the 'frustratus interruptus'! It sounds exactly like soooo many 'discussions' in my household. I decided just to not play anymore. I make notes in my diary about decisions made and comments etc so when he comes at me with "Why didn't you tell me....." I refer to my diary and show him that I did. Apart from that, I no longer attempt to get any support from him. There's no point expecting support from someone who often doesn't even remember that he should interract with his kids on a regular basis or even to eat! I get support from friends and forums like this one, and focus on my own wellbeing rather than his. His feelings and wellbeing are his own responsibility, not mine. Years and years ago I used to remind people that if you give someone enough rope, they may well hang themselves with it eventually (figuratively speaking of course). Then I grew up a bit more and realised that with some folk you just get left holding the end of the rope while they wander off and live their lives. So now I let go of the rope - no more problem! Stop accomodating his 'needs' and be quite clear that his 'needs' are his responsibility to address. You can be supportive of course, but why support someone who is not looking at ways to better support themselves? In my situation true support for my hubby is more like 'tough love'. Sometimes to support the behaviour is to enable the drama. Focus on you for a while because you are valid. I realised I had to do this when I recognised that over the years my hubby and I had developed the parent/child dynamic - this was destroying any shred of relationship that was left. Since then it has been challenging to stay focused, (particularly during arguments that are ridiculous and go in circles of blame) but I think it has been worth it. I'm not sure we'll ever be all lovey dovey ever again, too much 'water under the bridge' so-to-speak, but we're not at each others' throats anymore and I have my self esteem back. Good luck and hugs to you.

Hi jenjen,

I know exactly where you're coming from in expressing your feelings on this. Just recently (elsewhere on this forum) a wonderful person shared some information about ADD/ADHD anger that was like a shining beacon for me. I think it was in the post about anger. They said that on a brain chemical level the angry outbursts and provocations are to do with getting an endorphin/adrenalin hit that helps them. I'm not sure that they realise that they are perceived as lying or manipulating or bullying, I think most of them have been doing it since they were children and perhaps their parents didn't know all this new information about how the ADD/ADHD brain and personality operates. In my husband's case he cannot acknowledge that what he is doing is not ok and is really hurtful. Even our two children are telling him when he is out of line now. Whether that's right or not I don't even care anymore because I'm tired of being the only person in the world who points it out. Certainly it does wear you down, and I'm at the same point with my husband of nearly 17 years - out of patience. It doesn't help to snap back, it doesn't help (in my situation) to even try to speak calmly what is on my mind because he has his perception filter on that only lets his stuff in and out. Nothing I say will make a difference as he believes he is always right, and how dare I question him. So in order to keep coping, I have to ignore a lot of really horrible stuff and keep encouraging him to make the appointment with the clinic that will hopefully help him to admit his issues and start to manage them before I end up walking away from my beautiful home and marriage. I personally feel that a lot of the anger they feel and direct outwards is actually anger and frustration at themselves, and in many cases only someone 'outside' can be of assistance. As much as you can, focus on maintaining your wellbeing and talk to people who are there to help with this crazy disorder.

Dear sdelo7,

You are not alone. I know that isn't much comfort in the moment when the blaming and criticism is aimed at you.  But lately, I've been trying to remind myself as often as possible that it's not about me.  Like when he snaps at me for the smallest thing, or when he tells our counselor that his anger is minimal and fleeting, but mine is intense and I never let go... Or when he thinks making jokes about my tears is appropriate.... I try to tell myself "I've done nothing wrong. His brain is chemically unbalanced and this is not a personal attack on me". It helps a little, and it helps me take a mental step away from the conflict.  

I don't know if this helps you, but I have taken many suggestions from here and customized them to my personality and his specific behaviors.  Just know it's not you, it's not me, it's a disease.  All we can do is make our lives as good as possible. Sometimes that means a lot of work.  You're not alone and you have support.

I am not one for mothering, pampering and pussyfootying around an ADHD adult and I understand the situation you are in.  No pampering allowed, tell yourself that (at least not for him, pamper yourself as needed in these difficult days). You are letting him set the agenda. The reality is that he may not perceive that that is what is happening, the nature of ADHD is that perception is skewed.

So you mention he is diagnosed? Is he on medication or seeing a therapist/psychologist?  If not then that is where you must start. Firmly and reasonably and persistently - crying and begging will cause him to turn off and go blank. My view is that meds must come first - stabilize the behavior before addressing the thought processes. He probably has anxiety at the very least, co-existing with the ADHD, from a lifetime of failing to understand what is going on with him.  The right meds will make a tremendous difference and you have good odds that meds will help him.  Buy a copy of Change Your Brain, Change your Life and Healing ADD both by Daniel Amen, familiarise yourself with the manifestations and vocabulary surrounding ADHD. The reason I mention these book is that they both include descriptions of medications and which med may suit a person better than others. You don't have to agree with Amen's views on ADHD to derive benefit just from that info. Used copies are cheap.  When he agrees that meds are in his future then it may take some time to get the right ones, you must find a psychiatrist or doctor who understands and treats adult ADHD (specifically not one who only treats children).  Do not lose heart. Yes it is overwhelming at first, but as you learn more about it the more in control you will feel.

Could you try broaching the subject with him in the context of your marital/chore issues?  If he is willing to help fix the problems, could he consider for the sake of your marriage, that ADD might be a possibility?  With my husband, I made it very clear that I did not see his possible ADD as a deficiency, but rather something akin to his being born with blue eyes - it just is.  It's neither positive, nor negative, but needs to be acknowledged.  And if his brain/attention works in a different way than mine, then it would be helpful to know about it, make accommodations where necessary, and that it would allow me to have a different interpretation of some of his behaviours.

Frankly, I'd send him some flowers and a thank you note because he's doing you a favor.

Get the divorce.  Love is too precious to spend on someone like that.

Or, at least that's my opinion.

Of course my opinion is free so take it for what it's worth.

At least he's honest....

My bf was going on craigslist and sending pictures of himself to anonymous women while telling me he wants to marry me!  I would have much more respect if he would have told me, "I'm not ready, willing, able or whatever to be in a committed relationship."  It hurts much worse to be betrayed than told you are not what he wants.   He has promised not to do the craigslist thing anymore, but he's made that promise three times now.  I have changed my attitude and am still with him but he is no longer my priority.  I am distancing myself emotionally because I am tired of the pain that goes along with being with him.  I moved out, he says he wants us to live together again and I'm scared.  I'm lost most of the time as far as knowing what is going on with us.  I would LOVE honesty from him.  I would LOVE if he could hear what I say and give some sort of response other than "Wow.... that was a lot of stuff you said." 

So I kind of agree with the last reply that you should send him flowers and say thank you for stopping this before the pain is more than we can take. 

I admit I sound a little cynical but that is because I'm tired of being the only one to give of myself.  I'm tired of making our relationship a priority and putting effort into making it work with no kind of affirmation from him.  I'm just tired......

Good luck ;)

   Justbreathe, that post was great. What a good comparison. Really liked it.

For me I have to live my life in many ways like she doesn't exist. Not because I don't love her or want a happy marriage, but because I do. Our arguments have minimized since I try daily to focus on life's responsibilities as if she didn't exist...I am learning to not correct her anymore...For example, she fell Tuesday and fractured a bone in her leg...While I was in the doctor's office with her, he gave her a list of time tables etc....So when we started home and she began to talk about it, she stated some things incorrectly...At that point we would usually escalate into an argument. (ole fix it husband would share the correct info :) )... Now I just say I heard it differently, would you like me to share? If yes, then once I share at that point I'm done with it....And what actually happened?  You can guess, she said you are wrong!...But I don't get sucked in, and she eventually called the doctor's office back :-)...She's not my child, to long I've allowed my emotions to get wrecked by add/adhd behavior making be a bigger problem than Add. "There is an old saying about "Doing the same things, and expecting different results" So life has gotten better since I started realizing I cannot correct her add by verbal or emotional frustration, but I can make it worse for her and me. So it boiled down to this for me. See my self, try to love her like God requires me to, and I want too...But, actions like poor short term memory, emotional outbursts, living a life of denial,  an 8 year old responsibility level toward thing that's not fun for her. I had to decide am I going to destroy me self trying to change it, or just trust the lord and rest in his peace, and get up everyday and expect it? To be honest, I think the best thing for some of these marriages referenced in these posts might be time a part...I recently spent 11 months a part from my wife...I was so bitter, I don't think I could have gotten back to the place of even seeing myself without blaming the add effects. The worst part was, I had so associated add behaviors with her, I couldn't separate it...It would have been so easy to walk away, because after the first 6 months of God repairing the wreck I had become, I was finally living the most peaceful life I had lived in years...But my convictions are God created marriage (oneness) to last a life time. I know its not his will for our home to not experience love and peace. 

Hi...MAJ...I'm not in a fixed state of wellness :)...For me it's dying to my desire to change things everyday, and just trust the Lord and try to be thankful for each new day...I to was so tired, and still have day's where all I can say is "I'm so tired... But, when I start counting my blessings...I feel better...I doubt if your husband wants his add and neither does my wife...I just decided what was making me so angry was the excuse I was using to mother her...and my own failed attempts to change her behavior by verbally pointing it out...If someone is living a life of denial (by choose or not) or just isn't comprehending and refuses to address or even see the effects of their behavior on others, then you have a problem. At that point I feel like we each have to decide with-in our hearts if we are going to subject ourselves to that person's presents. I decided I would. Now, I just pray for her, and love her, I just try to do my best to walk away from irrational behavior (do not engage) and let her own it...The more she see's my emotions staying stable, and my refusal to take her actions on as my responsibilities, the more she humbles herself and trusts me...which as caused her to see herself a little more, and open up about add/ and its effects. But to answer your question again...Jesus brought me...Here's you a big hug that says...I understand HUG ()...

Denial, Blame, Excuse Making, And, just plain ole refusal to confront who we are is what makes life so difficult for spouses....

The only thing that has worked for me is to not engage poor behavior (unless it's my own of course)...The minute I cast my peace aside and step in to save the day, It's my fault:(....So disengage, when you see a train wreck coming step aside quietly and allow it to happen...Living my life w/ no suggestions, or enablement of her has helped us both...Sanchez they are big girls...

Blessing Friend....

I am so sorry that you are dealing with such burn out...I to have been to the place where all I was wishing for is for "life to just slow down please"...I wish I had the answer's you need...I really can't put myself in your shoes financially, because I like your Father-in-law...managed from set income all my life due to sustained employment and self-control in spending and debt....

I wish you well, and hope the right path for you becomes illuminated to you!

Blessing and Prayers...C

Same her my wife has severe add...and believe me your not the only one who wants help...LOL

Does your wife hoard up stuff, and have problems throwing things away?

Does she act lazy, and have a hard time falling a sleep, hard time getting up and going?

Is she easily distracted?

Does she have trouble with time commitments?

Does act like life should revolve around her, does she seek to control people?

Is she a thrill seeker, who is always wanting to go places and do anything she calls interesting, at your expense?

Does she ignore the needs of the home like never uses a broom, mop, vacuum or cleaning a tube or toilet?

Does she get addicted easily to snacks, TV or Facebook etc...Does she struggle with self control in area's like I've listed?

Is it impossible to talk to her,  does she interrupt and tell you your problems? Does she live in complete denial and refuses to ever take blame for any thing?

When she does take time with the kids does she just make huge messes and leave them for you?

Is she the messiest person you've ever been around?

Does she have to take adderall or some other meds...just be able to hold down her job, if she works?

These are some of the side effects and behaviors of my wife who is a severe add.....

Hi, Please-help.  In my case, the person with ADHD is my husband.  I understand there are differences between the sexes.  That said, things you say in this post have been true for me as well.  My husband was diagnosed with ADHD approximately seven years ago.  Initially, he seemed gratified by the diagnosis.  But then it became a situation in which he seemed to only want to acknowledge the ADHD to the extent of taking meds.  He has not stuck with any behavioral changes.  He dropped out of therapy.  He doesn't say the letters "ADHD."  I get the feeling that he wants me to take all responsibility for problems, because he has a disability, but at the same time, he doesn't want to talk about the disability or do anything about it other than take meds.  

We live apart.  I'm essentially single even though we're married.  It stinks.

I read your post then read all the replies as they came in before I wrote mine. They are all very valid, and in most cases describe a clause in the marriage contract that none of us non ADHD/ADD'ers signed up for.

Fact 1) Mental illness is NO excuse for bad behaviour. It's not their fault, but it IS their responsibility to deal with

Fact 2) Those who are in denial and refuse to help themselves cannot be helped by others. (nor should they be)

Fact 3) Many of the traits you describe can be attributed to other disorders like my husband - ADHD, but complicated by narcissistic personality disorder and bipolar.

So here's a gigantic HUG for you - only you. I have been living with exactly the same as you from my husband for over 20 years. It's sad, lonely, infuriating and confusing. Here's another HUG just for you.

Without going into all the ins and outs of what we live with, the best advice that was given to me by my psychologist is to ENSURE I allow time for ME. Don't engage in the argument that is obviously constructed by their own internal workings, it usually has nothing to do with you. Find someone you can talk to and chat with about this stuff regularly, your own self esteem needs it.

The hardest part for me was the time it took to get him to see someone who could present the concept to him that his head works differently to others. Unfortunately he is still mostly in denial so any treatment or medication is not an option. I and our two children (girl 17 boy 11) have adapted many ways to 'deal' with the outbursts, the blaming for stuff 'going missing', the misunderstandings due to not paying attention, being constantly ignored and then yelled at for being frustrated, honestly the list goes on and on, not the least of which is the mess - piles of stuff everywhere. We have learned to largely live without him and tolerate his presence mostly with silence when he is around. Other than that I have taught them to not engage, and don't take to heart what he says during an outburst. (they are many times a day)

With regard to the mess, anything that is in the way in the house gets piled up in a corner that I don't need, but that will be in his way. It's the only thing he will notice. And I no longer clean his stuff up or he will blame me for anything that he cannot find - even when I have already pointed out where everything is. The mess outside (and we are on 23 acres...) is a can of worms I now refuse to open. I have had to accept that the land around my house will forever look like a junkyard. When he gets angry that it's ugly and embarrassing when people come to visit I remind him that perhaps he should put things away when he's done with them. I constantly get the children to ensure their stuff is in their rooms so he cannot blame them for any mess anywhere.

I do jot down things that I feel need to be documented, and bring them up as needed. However the angry denial part of him then accuses me of being 'crazy' for making notes. There's really not much I haven't tried, and some of it would work if he could find it in himself to admit these things rather than the childish game of 'but I didn't do anything, it was you...'  Then there's the other usual comment, 'oh I forgot' which gets used whenever it suits, regardless of whether or not he actually forgot something. He has sexually assaulted me three times in 20 years, during the night out of frustration, but when confronted the next day or days later is so mortified that I had the audacity to bring it up that he pretends he doesn't remember doing it.

As a result I have largely learned to be a single parent. I cannot work due to school and home comittments that would suffer hugely if I wasn't here all day. He refuses to work stating that it makes him sick. He's nearly burnt the house down several times over the years trying to 'fix' things or simply making toast. It's a lot like having an oldest child that I didn't give birth to really, and certainly not what I signed up for. So that's why I send you a BAG of HUGS just for you. Sometimes, in spite of all the good advice it just gets more frustrating knowing that something could be done to make life better if only they would do it. So that's why I focus on me and our children. They are learning to manage what they have inherited by seeing it, and by me pointing out the similarities as they come up.

Try as many options as you can, take all the advice and suggestions available, but at the core of it all, have no expectations, STAY STRONG and make time and space for JUST YOU, to feel happy. Best wishes to you bro.

hi Berlie66, thanks for that statement at the end.  i will show that to her.  i've replied to C Ur Self above but it is under editorial review.  I wish i could have editorial review everytime i speak ;)

Anyhow, she is on medication and we seem to constantly be modifying it as her medication is being changed in the same manner as ADHD, erratic and ever changing, i.e. nothing seems to work constantly but we have a descent formula at the moment.

Lady Orlov seems to say, although mental illness is not an excuse for bad behavior, it is because of it they do these things so it is a symptom and if i provide a negative response, she will respond negatively so it's a spiral downward.  She calls it 'symptom, response, response'.  

So although you and i are in total agreement with that statement i can't actually use it since it won't help i appreciate the comradary.  nothing beats having people know what i'm going through.

you called it a mental illness.  That brings up another question.  What do i call it?  i don't think that's a good one since it implies it is a problem and telling a person with a problem they have a problem can be very counter productive.  Although i refuse to use words like 'special' or even worse 'a gift' can somebody please help with some terms that are neither offensive or condescending?

thank you

hi triedandtrue, i'm seldom used to such help without having to pay for it.  thank you for the quick advice and the user references which is so important since historic users may no longer be active but as it seems you know very well, the advice on this matter are practically timeless.  'a prosthetic to compensate for her behavior' is a really a great perspective and analogy to get my head around this. thank you so so much.

to answer your questions:

1. she is medicated - Vyvans (70mg), Stratera (80mg)

2. she is college educated - a big struggle for which she worked really hard at.  she has been through a lot and she has overcome this along with other struggles that are impressive.

3. she does work outside of the home

Excellent post...I see much of what you say in my wife's living of life...When my wife and I get into a conversation about say house cleaning...She will say what do you want me to do? I just look at her and say, something like...Just do the things you see needs done...She say's like what?....I'm like anything, what ever you see that needs done... She's like will you write it down? I'm like write it down? Its right in front of you! But, she is serious, I have to be careful at this point, because when she is this vulnerable which isn't often, (probably my fault) I can do damage to her emotionally. And her trust suffers....I can't comprehend this kind of mind, but she has one.

Your Hyper focus comment....Is right on also....I can predict it's coming when she is doing activities she likes, or around certain family members, but she may walk into a store and loose 3 hours walking around and have no idea how long she has been there....

Your comment's about instituting learning opportunities by appointment's and scheduling is also true and works for us....She is absolutely oblivious to my needs much of the time, or she was early on in our marriage....And just like Please-Help....Because of my ignorance of how her mind worked I felt so unloved, so taken advantage of....But when we started approaching things like intimacy or other important things by scheduling it really helped her realize...Hey this is a fundamental need for my husband, and something I need on my short list...And once she imprints it into her thinking as critical to a happy husband, she improves at not letting it slip out from under her awareness umbrella.

One other thing about having her mind...It's never wise to try to talk in depth about the past....And if it just can't be avoided I try to not correct the details of how she remembers something...It never ends well....Or if I correct her once...And she say's no you are wrong....At that point I must have enough discipline to not reply...It's always better to have her come back later, in a peaceful spirit and say hey you were right about so and so...(Reminder to self "Read this often)

My wife's main love language is affirmation....She ask me about a week ago...She said; did you see I cleaned up around my side of the bed? I said yeah, I noticed, and she said well you didn't pat me on the back for it...Before I could say anything she said...It's pitiful I need it.....She's precious:)

I can't tell you how many times we have been having a peaceful drive home from visiting family or friends and I hear something like...."You didn't say anything good about me to the kids"....I want to just get out right there and give her the car...LOL>>>>It's all real for her, which better make it real for me:)

Thanks again for your incite...

C

Hi triedandtrue,

I wanted to say a couple things about what you said..."Your wife cannot summon her hyperfocus at will - it appears only when something is "new or shiny" or of deep personal interest to her.   I know what the books say about this but this is not entirely true.  This is one of those things that gets passed around as gospel and never questioned again.  I'm here to say that this is not true for me at the very least.  Biofeedback training can actually override, channel and give you some choice in how, when and how long you are in hyperfocus or even to stop it at will.  This takes a dedicated effort and you can't keep it up as long as naturally occurring hyper focus because of the energy it takes to do this but saying it only appears when something is "new or shiney" is not true or accurate.  Hyper focus is actually a form of perseveration.  the problem isn't summoning it...the problem is breaking out of it (shifting gears).  At the point you can change your heart rate or control your breathing (your involuntary body functions) is the point where this is possible. 

Moreover, an ADHD person has little control over what is of interest. Hyperfocus usually causes problems for the ADHDer. ADHD is not a "gift" but if calling it that propels an ADHDer into therapy, who cares how it is described?

I also believe that this ability is a directly related to my ADHD (and hyperfocus).  I don't believe most people can do this.  Most I have asked say they cannot.  I would consider this ability a "gift" based on my understanding of what the term "gift" or "gifted"  literally means.  In context to what you are saying and the topic at hand....whether this is a "gift" for the person who has it is irrelevant to you.  I understand this.  To say it doesn't exist or there are no positives as well as negatives ( to discount, dismiss or deny that there aren't any or they don't exist ...is also a form of denial and perpetuated by statements that are also not true.

The problem for you and people dealing with love ones with ADHD is that you don't care about the positives....it's the negatives and how they affect you that is your focus and all you hear ( ad nauseum to the point of utter frustration) are the positive parts or gifts coming from people who are trying to inspire, motivate and help people with ADHD learn to control it.  This is also exactly what everyone wants from us.  As you said  "who cares how it described."  For the people who have it....we care a great deal.  It's everything for us.  For you...it means nothing. 

For you...you want us to admit and take responsibility for the negative aspects and you are met with resistance, defensiveness, anger and denial.  That's also as much a reality and as real and true as the other things that I said.

If what you believe is not either true or accurate on either side....nothing will ever change and become a different reality for anyone.  I've been proving people wrong all my life and in the case with hyper-focus.....I don't care what the books say.....I didn't know it wasn't possible so I found a way around it anyway and I know this for a fact.  If someone who has ADHD reads this kind of baloney.....they might also believe it just as stated which  implies it is not possible. 

I'm not faulting what you said ( or wanting to divert this topic on the subject of hyper focus )and the reasons for it....I've read these things too and understand this is what is being said and perpetuated as common knowledge and fact by some.  I only wanted to point out by at least one person who has ADHD....that this is not true for me. I could be corrected as being technically wrong by an expert in what I am calling hyper focus and the ability to control it with bio feedback but I don't think I am in this case?  That's all:)

J

 the defensiveness and "denial" deprive ADHDers of many opportunities for deep connection to others....

This comment of yours in the reason so many of us found this site:) I got married to a quiet, meek spirited home body at age 20 and after 30 years she developed Breast Cancer and went home. I was 50. Her attitude toward me was what ever you think....Fully trusting, she loved me better than I could ever deserve....I remarried my present wife about a year later....She was 46 and had never been married. You talking about opposite ends of the spectrum....

There is so much that can make it touch for late life marriages, I sure have sympathy for others if there dealing w/ more barriers then we've dealt with...LOL....

She wants to be a good wife; but, she like us all is subject to the product of her mind...Mrs, Competitive ( It took me a while to realize my efficiency in the Kitchen and efforts to share was intimidating to her, I couldn't win) and Independent who was single for 46 years don't help a lot either...Also, I can make it easier for her to want to be a wife when I don't give her so much free advice about how it should me:(....

It's very hard for me to be here after experiencing a very close marriage relationship....And have to settle for watching your statement above be our reality....It's like being on the beach and she is on a small Island just off shore, I can see her, and at times she will come stand and star at me with the most loving smile....But, after just a few seconds she get real busy again....And no matter how much I wave or holler....She is always just out of reach.

But, God is good, and by Grace we are moving forward...Most Days:)....

C

with some very good points that I also agree with.  I don't think people with ADHD are any more gifted than anyone else.  I absolutely agree with you on this.  I think this is where things can get confusing and mislabeled at times.  I mentioned having "gifts" that come with ADHD but this is on a micro not macro level.  There are strengths and weakness is all I am saying and I think it is solely up to the person who has it to find out how to take advantage of the strengths and use that to their advantage (or capitalizing on the strengths by turning the weakness into something positive). 

I do believe that I have some strengths (or innate talents that come from having ADHD ) that stand out from other people.  I'm saying this because they appeared when I was quite young at around 4 or 5 years old?  I'm saying standing out to the point of being so obvious that kindergarten through elementary teachers would consult with my parents to inform them of this.  This is in the creative artist realm.  I won every contest (every one ) that I ever entered in art through high school.  I was bumped 3 grades forwards to high school art classes and I still out performed kids who were those classes who were 4 -5 years older than me. I also taught myself to play musical instruments by ear without any instruction and advanced rapidly (in an accelerated rate) with instruction seemingly....without any real effort or discipline on my part.  The point is not to brag.....the point is that this made me more uncomfortable and self conscious than anything else.  I didn't like being singled out or have attention drawn to me but with no intention on my part.  This appeared to happen anyway whether I liked it or not? 

In all that time.....I only met one guy later in jr high school who had more innate talent in art than I did.  He was amazing and as I saw it....put me to shame.  He  later became a drop out from school and was a rebellious juvenile delinquent.  I also wonder now if he didn't have ADHD or something of the sort?

Not long ago, in an art course that I took at the college level (I returned to my alma mater to take some classes for fun).....the professor walked up to me while I was working and watched me for a moment and said "are you dyslexic?"  I said "No...ADHD (with a smile)"  He laughed and said " that figures....I usually can tell by watching someone like yourself and see them work that the one thing they seem to have in common is dyslexia or ADHD or something to that order.  I was just curious to see if I was still seeing the same thing?"  This was said in a complimentary way.  I also stood out in that class too.  I've learned to quietly go off in a corner and work in these settings and not talk too much with the intention of not having attention drawn to this fact and being left alone to work.  (as it should be lol )

You're right that giftedness and creativity exists in everyone ADHD or not.....but I still cannot explain my abilities in these areas and even to the reference made by my professor a few years ago?  There does seem to be a common denominator in all of this and I cannot discount the fact that some of this is not related to having ADHD?  I think talent only becomes realized with a dedicated effort in the real world anyway however.....the potential or innate "gift" that someone has in this way I firmly believe you are born with.  A person who decides one day that they want to do something that sounds interesting to them and they like, could work night and day for years and spend all of their time trying to do this thing and never come close to someone who is born with this kind of potential who may work a fraction of the time and energy expended to get to a place where very few people could ever get to no matter how hard they try.  I've seen this many times in my work field and I can tell someone like this after only working with them for a day or so ( just like my professor did with me ).  It's really obvious coming from this place once you've been exposed to it long enough.  I think this is true any any field or endeavor but.....this still does not explain the correlation with ADHD and the seemingly disproportionate amount of people who seem to naturally excel  in creative areas who have it?

I have my own hypothesis to try and explain this phenomenon and it is related to hyper focus or perseveration if you will.  I recently read an interesting article that support my hypothesis that stated ...
The term perseveration refers to the in-appropriate repetition of an earlier response.With respect to speech and language deficits, Albert and Sandson noted that most forms of verbal perseverative errors could be classified into one of three major categories: continuous, stuck-in-set, or recurrent....
 We next briefly review studies of the effects of these neurochemical systems on fundamental cognitive mechanisms that are thought to influence verbal perseveration, particularly the executive functions, such as working memory, planning, shifting of cogni-tive sets, and attentional processes.....

What immediately struck me about this article was in it's intention in an effort to research in an attempt to find medical treatment for people who suffered from verbal perseveration from head injury, parkinson's and a few other degenerative disease's......in my thinking....this is someone who started out without these infirmities but later developed them.  It talked about the different centers of the brain involved including the cerebral cortex itself and apparently....a lot of sharing or cross-talk or lateral  communication between these areas of the brain to arrive at what would be consider normal or non-perseveration in verbal speech.

But what if you are born this way from the very beginning?  If that were the case, it would make sense that your hard wiring is going to already take this into consideration as your learn and develop as an infant.  This going to take the path of least resistance to find a way around the effected areas and find a different pathway to get to the same place (and become hard wired that way for life).  What would not be normal for a person with a head injury for example....who suddenly has lot the ability to compensate for this fact....a person with ADHD is pre wired around this to a certain degree and the path ways to get there become fully developed as best they can. 

My hypothesis is that this full time permanent re-routing cannot fully compensate for the effected areas of the brain which is why you see the symptoms in us but....this permanent re-routing of the executive functioning processes does use predominantly different parts of our brains that have some added benefits along with this. In my thinking and what I have noticed about myself......I can do certain things without ever being taught or explained how to do them and yet appear to somehow know and can easily see or figure these things out much more easily or quickly than other people in some of these very specific (even if limited ) areas.

There is no way I cannot see this.  It's been brought to my attention by most people I meet at some point and time and not always so complimentary.  More like " how did you do that?  I can't believe you just did that????  Who taught you to do that or where did you learn to do that??"  The answer is no where or no one.  But I get in context to these moments that the disbelief is more from how I am perceived otherwise (maybe not so quick or a little slow in my thinking at times.  More of a sudden realization that (these people) had underestimated me and they are somewhat surprised.  I pick this up pretty quickly because I have seen this most of my life and am used to this response.  It's one I take with a grain of salt at this point:)

So, speaking strictly for myself......I have talents or potentials in creative areas that I have no idea where or why I have but....I do have them and they really stand out from just about anyone I have ever met aside from just a handful of people throughout my entire life and there is just no arguing this fact.  I'm also different in this way  from most people as well as all the negative ADHD symptoms?  These appear to be tied together in some way and this is not just a coincidence?  I cannot help but see these things (because other people tell me this)  as not being related and are just being two extremes both the good and the bad coming from one source.  I wish someone could verify this for me for sure because I would love to have this answer myself.

From everything I read and reports on this topic from other people who have or have seen this with people who have ADHD....I tend to think that these creative talents do come along with having it.  I still hold true to what you said though.....it doesn't mean people with ADHD are gifted.  It only means that some of us have the potential to excel in certain areas above and beyond what is considered normal or average for most people and it a born with innate potential for that reason.

Just because you are born with it however....doesn't mean it will be realized without putting the time and effort in to develop it.  I think Michael Angelo started apprenticing when he was 5 or 6 years old.  That sums it up pretty well right there:)

J

Here's the link to the article if you are interested...like I said....it's not about ADHD but it does have a lot of correlations that I thought were very interesting including confirming some things about the meds that I have already discovered in myself.  FYI:  I also stammered and stuttered a little when I was very young.  More correlations:)http://www.bu.edu/lab/files/2011/03/McNamara_Albert_2004.pdf

It sounds a little like you two are competing, like someone must win each discussion. It is difficult to have conversations with people who press for a resolution of the content. Who approach each issue discussed as a competition and they are going to prove their point at all cost....

I don't know if either of you are approaching things with this mind set....But, a sure sign of this mind set in conversation is what I seem to be hearing you say in your post...Emotions can escalate when one person is looking press a point... When every talk is competitive, leading or manipulative they usually never end well...We must respect each other's right to feel differently than we do.

My wife does this, and so do at times....I call it "Looking for an out come"....You start a discussion, or are coaxed into one...Where you or the partner seems to want to discuss something, but in reality you already know or think you know, what you are going to do...But, you start this discussion w/ hopes you can manipulate your partner in to seeing your issue like you do....

So when you don't get the out come you are looking for....You either have to be a mature adult and just calmly claim your feelings; regardless of what anyone thinks. Or, you can get emotional and feel like you need to force the partner into seeing things your way....

I've found with my wife...If I have an agenda go ahead and let it be known up front if it's something I feel needs discussed or just reveled to her....And be willing accept her right to share her thoughts...She does this quiet a lot just because she is a wife, and because her life's desire is about fun things, travel, spending money, etc...So, no matter how much I think things are lacking at home or in the marriage...I must accept this reality when she starts seeking to draw me (control) into a conversation where her mind is made up, but she would love for me to agree with her whether for love's sake, appearance sake or both....I must deal w/ my own emotions at this point, because I know what's coming, but, I owe her calmness and my ear;)

My wife knows me, she know how I feel about most things, I've been clear about my feelings....But, she will ask me about things that she is perfectly clear on how I feel...Why? Because she is hoping to get me to agree with her....So, I have to guard against starting out with a reply with frustration already set in on me....I'm learning how this works....Most of these attempts to approach me are about her doing something...Things we have discussed many times...But, if she can draw me in, and get me to show frustration and go on a tangent about something she already had her mind made up she was doing anyway. She can turn it into a situation where she can continue to live in rebellion to her husband's feelings and blame him so as to ease her conscience....So, it just pay's to be wise....I'm learning to say, you know my feelings, but if you want to tell me you your plans, I will listen.

To manage my own emotions, and not over think or over state things works well for me...

He is diagnosed but in denial that it's a problem -in spite of the fact that our marriage is all but dissolved and we simply live together.  I've never been able to see my wife and I as having much more than you've stated here...With out husband's desiring to be a husband, and a wife desiring to be a wife...How do you get past having a relationship that just mirror's two independent thinking people living like roommates much of the time?  If there is never acceptance and respect for our Vow's and the call on our lives to be a husband or wife...Then we could live together for years and years and never truly experience what it's like to be one....

One other thought.....He, like yours, blames me for the marriage breakdown in that he feels it is a wife's duty to 'support' her husband - even when he's wrong.  I on the other hand refuse to accept such an old-world paradigm and maintain my independent thoughts and feelings. 

Questions: Do you feel like this statement mirror's where you are, what you have been through? Do you think you would have made this statement if things would have been different? (And I'm not talking about the part where you uphold or cover for him in is wrongs either:)

The reason I ask is; I don't think a person has to forfeit there individuality to come along side their spouse as we were created to do. 

As a husband or wife I know there are rights and wrongs to deal with in life...But, when mutual respect and responsible life styles are in the forefront of how we live and treat each other, then we want have any problems submitting to one another, or respecting differences.

Of course I also think when Individuality is used as an excuse to just rebel against our spouse then the fruit of that will always manifest itself as something that destroy's our unity, peace oneness.....

C

Hi peace, pardon the pun but hang in there! I'm not going to suggest that it all gets easier but you can make different choices for yourself that will help your wellbeing tremendously. I've suggested previously that folk find and read a book called 'Choice Theory" by William Glasser. While it didn't change anything my husband does or doesn't do it has allowed me to find a way of not caring so much when he screws up our plans/feelings/household etc. It has made me more aware of the choices available to me and that I cannot change him no matter what. He has to want to make a difference to himself and to his children. This waxes and wanes with the tides, while he floats in and out of the 'easy road' in blaming me for EVERYTHING. 

I agree that it would be so much easier in some ways to force them into therapy or medication or whatever actually works, but as you've noted already we cannot force anyone to do anything, regardless of the positive effect it may have on the rest of the family/household/relationship. I think it's a plus that you actually got him to take meds long enough to see a positive difference that you can potentially draw on in future therapy sessions. My husband flatly refuses to try any meds, and most times still refuses to accept that his differences cause 97% of the havoc in our family but that he could improve his relationships with some honesty and conscious effort.

While I don't believe they consciously enjoy creating turmoil or hurting the ones they love, our ADHDers are strangely most comfortable while they are in the pattern of behaviour that they have become accustomed to. My understanding of it is that while they feel so not in control of their heads they gain comfort from inadvertently controlling their environment around them. For some of them it's establishing a similar dynamic to their childhood family home surrounds as with my husband. He has subconsciously put me in the position of his late mother, allowing his inner child to feel secure in the knowledge that his mother is looking after everything as she always did (but not always to everyone's best interests, only hers unfortunately)  Little do they realise that they are causing so much harm to their partner and partnership by establishing a parent/child dynamic.

For others I think its maybe not so complex and they simply revert to the patterns they are accustomed to without any thought about the destructive nature of their behaviours.

As mentioned elsewhere on this forum, we (the partners) need to assess constantly whether we want to choose to continue with a relationship that doesn't quite cut it, or spread our wings and fly to warmer climes. It's really tough, and I often feel it's so unfair, but there it is. The bottom line is that it is entirely up to us as to stay and put up or go and be free of it. My husband certainly won't change his ways permanently ever. I've worked that out after 20 years. Out of neccessity he will improve a bit for a short time, but once he has established the thing or time he was hankering after, he goes right back to being impossible to live with. I've torn my hair out, shouted, cried, left and come back, given all sorts of ultimatums and choices to him, but always the pattern remains. 

My coping mechanism now is to spend much less time around him. If he goes out for the day, fantastic! If he hangs around the house for weeks on end getting all up in my face then I go out. It usually means an argument about where I'm going, who with, how long for, and why do I even need to go anywhere? But I grit my teeth and stay calm and remind him that its perfectly normal to have friends and hang out with them for the day once in a while.

Strength and hugs to you in making happier choices for yourself.

Hi,

Haven't been posting for a while but still living the dream....lol.  Some improvements have been made on his part, he has been on meds for years but now is also in therapy 1x per month. Not sure how much he is actually addressing  issues vs. getting Rxs filled but at least he goes.  The angry phone calls/text while I am work have not 100% gone away but have died down significantly which is a major improvement.  

He does not have the ability to see how his actions and words impact others around him and  I have pretty much given up hoping that this will change. He will start stupid arguments and make inflammatory statements on social media without any sort of awareness ( or maybe he does but does not care...) on how he is perceived by others, the impact on those friendships etc.. He just pulled a doozy that I am trying to work though my anger silently on without engaging him more   He put out some inflammatory  statements on social media which offended many of our mutual friends  who proceeded to give him some opposing feedback. He then proceeded to dig in and keep the turmoil rolling, directly insulting some of my oldest friends etc.  I don't share his views on the controversial  topic at hand....so very difficult and embarrassing as not only is he insulting people I care about, but he will get derogatory when he feels he is losing ground/always needs to have the last word etc.  He has no concept/does not care that his insulting our mutual friends may have an impact on me/ my relationships.  I can deal with differences in opinions and do not need to share the same set of friends but have difficulty with his tactics/seeing the ugliness come out in him.    Anyway needed to vent that so thanks for being here forum!

Our son is getting older so I am very careful about trying to maintain the peace at home  and getting better at not taking the bait when he starts to try to stir things up.   I am seeing someone as well which has been helpful. 

I still get very angry and think of leaving frequently but do not think that is the best option for our son. He has some very difficult behaviors  associated with ADHD abuse, seems to have some degree of alcohol dependency & possible porn addiction but overall is a good person/Dad and does actively work on himself/ recognizes the harm in some of these problem areas.  Others not so much but not expecting perfection here... and improvements in the main behaviors bothering me ( i.e anger management) have been made. Am trying to move on from feeling victimized by him/ADHD and other related issues but am struggling with  1) developing a fair set of clear boundaries for our home and  2) since I have made choice to stay finding the energy to work on this relationship that is not meeting either one of our needs. He is likely as disatisfied as I am but will never take initiative to leave as has struggled with financial security until he met me so is on me to make the decisions, take the required steps to find the counselors etc. for another round of marriage therapy.

Greetings Rose9,

I would start with getting your son officially diagnosed. Then tell that specialist that you’ve noticed the same kinds of behaviors in your husband. Let the doctor handle it from there. That way you don’t have to be the ‘bad guy’.

He will need talk therapy AND meds. You will just need therapy so you know the best ways to help all of them. Make sure the therapist is NOT an ADHDer and has a detailed background in in ADHD. Interview them before you hire them. Ask them why they have an interest in ADHD. The last thing you need is and ADHD therapist to deal with, too.

I would NOT recommend having any more children. You have NO idea what is already on your plate! Trust me, I have five birth children.Three with my ADHD husband. All have it to some degree. They are adults now. I have PTSD just from raising them all. Still never found a way to deal with my husband. After 34 years he hurts me every single day. He had gone undiagnosed until 2014.

Best of Luck,

Resigned

I have wondered the same thing about how many people give up and get a divorce.  I am now legally separated from my ADHD spouse because I could not do it anymore.  I could not be the only one behaving rationally and as an adult.  I could not continue to be blamed for everything and be degraded for no reason other than HE didn't know how to handle things like an adult (he's 60 years old), so he resorted to the classic "I'll put you down to make us more on the same level".  We are trying to work it out, but it is slow going.  He does not want to lose the security that I have brought to his life, and he does not know how to participate in our marriage in order to keep it intact.  It's frustrating.  I love him.  We have some amazing times together and I would like to enjoy more of those times with him, so I keep trying.  I think that once they understand that their brains are wired different and that they have to learn to be who they want to be, it becomes easier.  I know in my case it did.  He finally understood that his behavior was not acceptable to a non ADHD person like me.  Once he truly grasped that concept, he was able to see that changes had to be made.  And it's been baby steps with those changes, but baby steps are better than no steps.  He still tries to blame me for everything that doesn't go his way, but I'm able to point that out to him and tell him to stop.  He usually sees it and stops.  When he doesn't, it just means we have more work to do.  So for me, all of this is the point.  I want my husband to be by my side till death.  I want him to function as an adult. I want to be happy.  I want him to be happy.  And we have all of those things on a part time basis.  I believe they will be permanent eventually.  I have to believe that or else I would have given up completely.  The Legal Separation has been good for both of us and I think it opened his eyes to the reality of the state of our marriage.  He knows I have limits now.  I wish you well, Resentful.  Only you know what your limits are and when it's time to cross that line into separation or divorce.  

There are many common themes that get brought up a lot on this site,  for the 4 years I've hung around it anyway....You and Dansgirl just posted about some of the more frequently posted one's....My spouse is fun...Yep mine too....My spouse doesn't do the work, I do...Yep.....And this is by far the most posted about.... (It sounds like we, the non adhd spouses, are the ones that constantly have to adjust our lives to compensate for the hurt our ADHD spouses causes as a result of their "brain wiring".) 

Lets talk about this one....What are our options? What can we do, or say that will change them, and the way they think, feel and behave??....I've made all the mistakes already, all my efforts to change her, point out, talk, argue and fight, only took a disciplined, hard working individual down a road I never thought I would find myself on....And one it's taken a long time to get off of....So this post to you isn't suppose to sound harsh or hard at all...I've been asking the same question you are for 10 years...And I've had many screen friends on this site, who are, or were, here asking the same questions you and I are asking....In a way we are victims to add/adhd, just like our spouses are victims to our behaviors...If we live together that is the way it's going to be....

Everyone bases their way of thinking and living on something....Sadly most people seem to base it on their own mental processes (thus the dysfunctional behaviors)....The reality for me came when I just didn't like myself any more....And had to ask myself how I got here....And the answer...."You are here because your disdain for your wife's life style dominates your thoughts, and causes you to be an unstable person" was hard to swallow, but, since I've swallowed it...I've been able to work on me....And that's the only thing that has brought comfort to me, (that I can control) and it's helped my marriage....It also allowed me the liberty to leave her if I feel I must, with out regret...Knowing it's the best for us both.....I hate the thought of divorce, but, I hate the reality of what was happening in our home worse....I told her I refuse to get any older fighting with her....This time she realized I meant it....

So that would be my advice.....And I truly am all ears, if there is a better way....

C

Well said, Resentful!

XOXO

(but it is so hard build a loving  relationship with someone who operates this way.)

Yes it is, and many of us posting here looking for answers, really don't have one....But it's not because of a fast mind (adhd)...It's the same as my relationship w/ God...If I confess my sin instantly (my carnal thinking), and stand before him bared...Knowing I need his forgiveness and his light to walk in, (a renewed mind) so I can be delivered from my carnal thinking. (blame, denial, excusing myself etc..)

Only then can I experience spiritual peace....

But if I take on the prideful position..."Oh I can explain that away"...Then I remain in darkness.....That is the problem that haunts so many of our marriages....We blame each other, and vindicate ourselves, instead of owning our thinking, feelings and behaviors....

C

(Why is it my responsibility to just be the one accommodating him?  UGH.)

It's not....It's your responsibility to be sure you are doing what is responsible and right...

When a person excuses themselves of their responsibilities, (as you say ur H is doing) all they are doing is creating a mirage for themselves and others to cover up for the things that they just do not want to do....Had you rather he just tell you "NO" to everything he doesn't see as self entertaining or adrenalin producing? Or, had you rather he take the time to give you his excuse? (My adhd just want allow me to be responsible in the area you are seeking me to)

Your disposition will improve greatly if you ACCEPT that he is going to live out the rest of his life with the same mindset he has today!...Unless, he has a heart change that causes him to not make excuses....AND LOL...the heart doesn't change because you and I are angry and spouting negative emotions at them about their reality....

I suggest you do what you have to do in order to live a peaceful life.....Think about it this a way....."A person can dodge their responsibilities in this life, but, they can't dodge the consequences of dodging their responsibilities"

Blessings

C

agreed.   It does seem a lot of "you adjust...i've got ADD"     

I've been married 46 yrs next month and boy can I relate to what you've said!!  So much so, I think I've lost me!  I'm so tired and over it but don't know where to turn.  Husband refused to do anything to help with his ADHD.  Says he know's trouble is all because of him starting things.  Works well for about a week and then it starts again.  I feel completely drained, like an empty shell with a head that just keeps having a brain that is a spinning blob of much.  I want out but don't know what to do.  I would so love for things to be 'normal' but know in my heart that is impossible.  

first let me just say that I totally relate to what you're going through - my husband has had untreated ADHD most of his life. Was never a big problem as he graduated from college and had a career, etc. he would just have attentiveness issues from time to time and some odd controlling behaviors that have gotten worse: he won't leave me alone if I call someone on my phone - almost like he stands there and listens to my conversation... Ever since the pandemic happened and we both lost our jobs at the same time it's been a nightmare living with him. I was recently diagnosed with a rare blood cancer and I'm trying to navigate my way through treatment/management of the disease. Because of this and my countless doctor appts. I have not yet landed another job, but I keep applying to many with no luck. We are both in our 50s. His newer symptoms are terrifying: slurred speech, meanness/emotional abuse, he even has such bad generalized anxiety (GAD) that it causes him to freeze up and just fall to the floor. He has been diagnosed with ADHD/panic/anxiety (severe)/ and depression. 

I have given him an ultimatum with a time limit of 6 months: either he gets CBT AND goes on meds, or I leave. I can no longer take this.

Unfortunately, this past weekend he had an "episode" at a large party at my sister's and brother in law's house. His mood was deteriorating on the ride over there, and I mentioned that maybe he should take a nap once there/meditate. He didn't and later in the evening displayed bizarre behavior: babbling nonsense to people that knew him. They approached me and were worried. he only drank 2 beers all evening (I saw) as his Vyvnase lessens his demand for self-meidcating which is one good thing. But about an hour later he fell down, and that was when I drove us home. The med seems to help in morning until the afternoon - thats when he is exhausted mentally and the bad mood starts, quickly descending into this volatile, hateful ADHD madness. Not sure if he is coming down off of the med, but then it's supposed to be long-acting to help prevent this! Maybe he needs another "bump" of another stimulant in the afternoon too??? I don't know anymore and finding the right treatment has been exhausting. 

Now I have no desire to go anywhere with him anymore. It's dangerous for him and very stressful for me. I don't know what to do as he is already on Lexapro for his other issues. I just feel that every single day it's about his moods and treatment and he couldn't give a damn about my health issues. 

I am at the end of my rope after 20 years of marriage. He is like a stranger to me and we have not been intimate in almost 2 years (not that I would want to be intimate with him now anyway). 

I can't leave until I get another job, but I truth be told, I have been looking at apartments in the area on line for now. I don't care if I have to live alone. I need peace in my life again. This stress is gridning me down to a nub and I feel like I have aged 10 years in 3. 

THIS

He will not allow me to talk to anyone or have any friends because of his fear of looking bad, other peeps knowing his business etc. BUT I AM DYING HERE, how is that fair?

AND THIS....

He feels he has the wright to tell me how to live, breathe, etc, cause it's his opinion...all the time, the same stuff

The behavior that you described is abuse.

Oke wow after reading this, i think there's more of a personality shit going on together with ADHD/ADD.
For example, I am a person with ADD and i'm together with my spouse for two years. I would never tell her not to go out with friends, i will never tell her not to touch finances.
I trust her when she goes out, I trust her with money, I trust her with our friends.

But... She's getting into a burn-out depression because I can not talk that easy. I shut down very easy.
I never learned to talk about my feelings actually.

So, wow.. I'm amazed by your statements here :(
After this weekend full of friends/drinks/others... again we had a fight because i'm going trough a very hard time at work too.
When it's weekend my focus or hyperfocus goes to amusing myself and have a good time.
The downside of all this is the hyper. I can not understand how my spouse is feeling, and I can not take care of her because I'm too busy having fun, even while she is also with our friends.

Love your post....It's says I care....

These are a few of my thoughts related to what could make life more manageable for us....Because of our huge differences in lived out priorties, desires, and commitment levels (forget the words, they are usually formed by who we wish we were) we must have ownership....Ownership Stops most all arguments...Ownership say's I care more about US, than my own Pride....Arguments are the product of self love, selfishness and defensiveness when our selfishness is questioned...If I am justifying an action or life style that is being brought into question, it's easy to feel attacked, even when the pointing by an emotional spouse is coming from an hurting heart...People turn to words and emotions for a lack of a better understanding of how to communicate our pain....It's really OK to quietly hear it....Don't join in, but, take note.... 

Ownership allows us to (puke up) exactly who we are, whether we like ourselves or not...(our self approval isn't going to repair our relationship)....It also identifies the product our spouse is being subjected to, even if it feels normal for us, or even if we are somewhat blind to what it's like for them...It's ok to for me to not like myself, feel I need to improve, change some habits, hobbies, (self-consuming practices, etc)....But, I only become someone who needs walked away from (becomes hopeless in truthful and calm communication attempts) when I attempt to deny (denial) what my spouse is experiencing and is witness to most everyday...

Things like hyper focus has to be calmly admitted, and owned....When a mind is in a long term hyper focus period our spouse isn't getting much if any attention, therefore it's easy for them to feel abondoned...It's a real thing for them....But, we call hyper focus on an up coming event, trip, or friend as our normal...Fine it's our normal, but, where does that leave our wives or husbands who can and do switch focus gears many time in day or hour? (based on need and responsibility)....So it really comes down to ownership, and putting ourselves in their shoes...(add or not)....When life gets overwhelming in the relationship....Stress, arguments etc...It's usually because of selfishness, personal blindness as it relates to my obligations and responsibilites with in the relationship....

Marriage for any two partners takes accountability, and responsibility to the two being one flesh union....When I am lost on my own entertainment, justifying my own pursuits, planning my own life...When life is about me being my number 1 priority, what that is saying is my concern is for me things, not us things (vow based relationship)...When justification of my perceived individual rights, out weighs my humility, empathy and for the product of my marriage, then I want communicate well....I will be on guard to Interrupt, vs listening w/ empathy....

My suggestion is start by working on Owning everything about your words and actions, without relating any of those words, behaviors etc...to your spouse....Never think, "I do this, because she does this"....That is the way to hell...Get to know the person she lives with everyday, not the person you see yourself as...

(At the end of the day marriage is about taking care of us...Not what YOU or SHE wants for us...But, just sharing in all aspects of life, the fun as well as the mundane....Peace to you friend....

c

Hey man, I got diagnosed with ADD beginning of 2024. While my journey and my relationship is still very "new" about two years, and met each other while I was in a burn-out from old work and a broken relationship. Well it really clicked, and the care and love I felt from her were enormously and that's how I also got out of my burn-out and i was strengthening up to be better.
Right now, i'm taking rilatin and it helps me a lot with focus and getting motivated at work. (new work) but I already feel burned out / chronically stressed because of the burden at work, a boss that is not really being a boss, work that doesnt have borders, it's a new job so I have to generally design it myself, while getting no support from my "boss" who is saying no when I have brilliant ideas.
Oke so far thats my short history about 2 years now.

I am a very loving partner, caring and helpful. I share my everything when it comes to money etc, but also that I had to learn the hard way.

After a period of doing reaaaaaally great with each other, things start to slip as I was getting more and more stress. I was seeking a lot of other impulses and I even had the tought that the grass would be greener at the other side. And after I really felt so so embarresed, I didn't even want to say why I wanted to seperate. My spous heart was completely broken when I said I want to leave and that my feelings were over. The problem with me is that I am having a very hard hard time talking about my feelings. When we were still together my spous was pushing me for answers about why or what is triggering me to push our relationship away. The problem is, i couldnt find answers for that myself.

My spous is going trought a rought time again now, and we "solved" my dismissive behavior, and I adressed it to a fight or flight, related to stress, me not knowing why, and my ADHD.
I'm still very bad at talking. :(

So, futher in the relationship I even forgot our first anniversary, forgot other things and my spous is starting to get very burned out by trying to be calm, not responsive too much and everything.

For myself I also need answers as for me it's also been hard. Lately in weekends I can be the life of the party, enjoying everyone, and leaving out my spous in this joy. It's this way of my problem with focus and hyperfocus on things that trigger me to get extra dopamine. Trust me, I go very far, with black or dark humour, saying the most crazy stuff in front of people, and this behaviour can go on for a full weekend when I'm constantly surrounded by our friends. Also alcohol and other things can come into the picture
 

I'm trying to get myself on all this. I'm now also doing a course on Chronic stress and burnout.

Someone just help because I can also not take the yelling and minimizing me anymore, that i'm a child, that I need to grow balls and what so ever.
She even tells that she will go f** (edited) around so I can just feel the same.

Well, i might deserve it, but this behaviour no-one deserves is my opinion.

HELP!

This is to KathWashington,

Whoever wrote or said, "If something doesn't interest me, it's TORTURE to have to learn it. I'd rather be poor." translated means:

I'd rather be single since putting others people's needs ahead of my own is beyond me.

Best of Luck!

Love, compassion and healthy boundaries....I love this thought, and the attitude....But if your step back and read your post, it has to cause you to ask yourself...What is in the best interest for me? And for him? Love is never carrying another adult...Setting boundaries like no access to your money, and limiting yourself to only one job...Splitting all common bills, are all reasonable things in your situation....The lady posted that he only wants to be single....I agree....Put pressure on him with reasonable boundaries that force adult responsibility...He will grow up, or he will leave to pursue his world of frivolity...You can't change him, nor should you be subjected to his immature and disrespecful behaviors....

c