Rethinking Aggression and Defense in ADHD Relationships

How to help couples understand the destructiveness and intertwined nature of many of their interactions? I was reading a novel the other day about civil war (an apt analogy for many ADHD marriages!) and came across some ideas that I think can help describe why couples get into negative patterns even when neither one of them wants to.

Here are the quotes:
“Rarely do people set out to start a civil war. Invariably, when such wars break out both sides consider themselves to be the aggrieved ones…The moment one group feels itself so aggrieved that it uses either its own weapons or the weapons of the state to “prevent” the other side from bringing about its supposed “evil” designs, then that other side will have no choice but to take up arms against them. Both sides will believe the other to be the instigator…

It’s the lesson of Yugoslavia and Rwanda. If you were a Tutsi just before the Rwandan holocaust who did not hate Hutus, who married a Hutu, who hired Hutus or taught school to Hutu students, it would not have stopped Hutus from taking machetes to you and your family. You would have had only two choices: to die or to take up arms against Hutus, whether you had previously hated them or not.”
- Orson Scott Card, from the afterword of Empire

No one is wielding machetes in your marriage, though there is pain enough to go around even without the machetes. Card’s point is right on target, though, about how one must respond to protect oneself from aggression and, also, about how both parties feel the other is responsible. “If you hadn’t forced your ADHD behavior on my life then I wouldn’t have responded this way” and “It’s all your fault – if you weren’t so mean to me then I could do something about my ADHD!” are the common justifications for fighting in an ADHD affected marriage.

I’m more interested, though, in the first idea – that overt aggression about things that matter requires a response. Think about ADHD – the person with the ADHD isn’t aware of how his ADHD affects his spouse, but it really does – “aggressively” changing her life for the worse. As many of the posts in the forum attest – these aren’t small changes. The non-ADHD spouses are desperate, exhausted, ready to give up their marriages and all they dreamed of because their lives become so unbearable.

The non-ADHD spouse has her own form of aggression. In response to the unwanted imposition of ADHD symptoms, the non-ADHD spouse starts to attack her spouse – nagging, belittling, withdrawing affection or sex, and cutting him off from his kids are just a few ways that the attacks come. He can either hide in a hole/deaden himself or…fight back.

The most common way I see spouses with ADHD fight back is to take the position that their ADHD isn’t really the issue – or, perhaps, that they are “doing enough” for their ADHD symptoms. Their other option, to admit that ADHD is a core problem in the face of the onslaught, feels like surrender and “giving in too much”…which isn’t so likely in the "civil war" that many of these relationships turn into (think of the Rwandan example).

So both fight, in their own ways, and reinforce the need to fight further in order to maintain any semblance that they are in control. It’s sad that a truce is very, very hard to call until there is literally no other option – that is until one spouse asks for a divorce. At that time the pretense of control that fighting instills is shown for what it is – a sham - and suddenly the spouse who is being left realizes he or she simply doesn’t have control…and must approach their relationship completely differently.

But wouldn’t it be better if both parties could agree that they have no other choice right now – before they have so worn each other out that there is no affection left anywhere? That their current path is unsustainable...period? Moving away from ingrained aggressive patterns starts with understanding that the root cause of the issue is ADHD symptoms and that they must be effectively treated for forward progress. But I'm not letting the non-ADHD spouse off the hook here. She (or he) must understand the destructive power of aggressive anger – and the fighting response that it inevitably invokes. She might train herself to think Hutus and Tutsis next time she's tempted to lash out at her partner.

It’s a mistake to think that aggression helps (though it's easy to see why frustrated spouses turn to aggression). One might win a short-term battle - for example getting a chore done that would otherwise have remained incomplete. But though the battle is won the war is lost. Nagging, belittling, and shutting out are the machetes of the non-ADHD spouse’s side of the marriage, just as underestimating the effect of ADHD symptoms is the machete of the ADHD spouse. For an eventual “winning” of the war, BOTH need to step away from these things. Better treatment on one side. Counseling, reading, meditation, exercise, forgiveness…on the other.

Just as you were in lockstep in the escalation of your “war”, so too must you be in lockstep for its de-escalation. Neither partner can do it on his or her own. The crisis is jointly created and must be jointly – and simultaneously - defused. It doesn’t matter that the ADHD came first – particularly since the ADHD spouse has been unaware (and probably still is) of the complete effect of his symptoms. Not an excuse – just reality. The past is just that – the past. As in the ideal of any peace negotiations, the questions are can you move beyond and let go of your past? and where will you go from here?

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Thanks Melissa for sharing

Thanks Melissa for sharing what you gleened from the civil war book. While reading your post, I suddenly saw my marriage as though I was looking on from the outside....watching another couple as they have hacked away at each other. A couple that have both been Hutu and Tutsi. I felt a sadness that I have never felt before looking at this couple. I hope I can remember this the next time I reach for the machete.

I gave up temper tantrums

I gave up temper tantrums years ago. Anger doesn't work, and I'm tired of "dealing with it". After a long period of apathy, I've withdrawn and am starting to think that I am seriously depressed. The chronic communication issues have left me feeling hopeless. Apparently, my ADD husband thinks that his behavior doesn't affect me any more than mine affects him. He's decided that I had problems long before he ever met me and has been more low key lately, maybe he feels sorry for me. It's never a fair fight. There is no compromise. He will make sure he wins this civil war. I hate to surrender but, I don't care anymore.

reply to Clarity

I have been in your shoes Clarity, and I need to tell you that feeling hopeless and withdrawing doesn't work any more than temper tantrums do. My ADD husband of 30 years eventually had an affair in response to those tactics. We both would give anything to be able to go back a few years to do the couples work that we are doing now. Betrayal is a heart breaking experience to live through even if you "think" you don't care... Do yourself a favor and take another chance before it's too late. When Dr. Hallowell's new marriage book comes out, see if you can get your husband to read it with you and do the intimacy exercises. Good luck - don't give up!!!

Thanks for the chin up

Thanks for the chin up gr8memories, I hate to think that things could be worse! He has made changes that seem to have stuck these past few months so, looks like he's making an effort and that could be hopeful, could be an illusion... I can't seem to let my guard down, It's like I'm frozen, trapped in this 30 year moment, unable to dream and plan or hope... Maybe Dr. Hallowell's new book will give me something to think about, thank you!

My husband will make an

My husband will make an effort from time to time but it is only when he sees how frustrated I am getting. The effort never lasts and he goes back to his same old ways over and over. It is an illusion. I don't believe I will ever be able to let my guard down again. I do not feel nor see any sincere commitment from my husband that he truly wants to change anything. I am accepting this more and more as each day goes by and trying to plan for my future as many others are. I have felt the same way for a long time, frozen and trapped, with a man who never talked about hopes, dreams or plans. Now, at least, we know why but that doesn't help much after all of this time. I am trying to thaw out and go on.................

I understamd

I am very glad I have come across this site, I suffer from bipolar but I am stable. I have gotten sick in the past but at present I am doing very good. My husband just got diagnosed with ADHD- he has known he has had it but no one till now would see what he has known. All the same I feel like I am the stronger of the two of us, the one making things work. It can be tiring. He just recently gave up his job because he missed a shift- panicked and decided not to go back- No, this isnt the first time he has done this. I dont work, I have worked up until we got married though 6 yrs ago. Its hard dealing with his inability to "be a man" I hate being supported by the state and even worse I hate having my parents have to give us $25 so every so often to keep us going when they are straped as is- I am grateful for their help. But sometimes he can act so childish- and blames it all- everything on his ADHD which to me cant take all the blame- I dont blame all that I ever do good or bad on my illness, some I do simply because I choose to and not because it is making me. I feel your frustration, I never really had a temper till his ADHD really has been interfering. I love him, I am glad he finally is going to get medication and I hope it will help him do what he is meant to do as head of the house, as my husband. I know my parents worry about him, about his ability to do this. I want to ease their minds. Its hard being the one who does everything- except make the money in the relationship but I do the rest and its not easy. I hate insecurity, I hate being in debt, I hate not knowing if he will stick to a job. I hope things will change soon with the medicaton.

Heads Up

Heads up on this - it sounds as if your husband should be not only pursuing ADHD meds (and behavioral treatment, which will make his results better) but also should talk with his doc about anxiety issues. Anxiety is a VERY common, and very debilitating side effect of ADHD.

help

do you have any suggestions for me?? i am 25 and i am awaiting my adult ADHD diagnosis my "temper tantrums" are uncontrolable i am destructive i have never hurt a person but i have damaged my house and i have damaged my car :( i am fearing that this is going to cost me my marriage and even worse my daughter. i feel that if i get my temper under control the other issues will be easier to deal with any suggestions of where to look otr who to speak to ?? please thanks viki XX

a short fuse

A short fuse and quick, sharp, negative responses to sometimes minor annoyances can be symptoms of ADHD. If in fact you do have ADHD (get the diagnosis, or to get a head start before the diagnosis is performed, read the section in "Delivered from Distraction" that identifies that major "symptoms" of ADHD), and the "temper" issues are the result of the ADHD, then treatment for the ADHD will likely mitigate the anger issues. I say mitigate because like any other ADHD symptom, "treatment" only addresses part of the issue, and you will then be able to "learn" new habits, after having finely honed the old habits over a lifetime.

Treatment in most cases will be medication (you will likely need to try several to see which work the best for you), but should also be supplemented with other lifestyle changes (frequent strenuous exercise helps many, as does a change in diet or supplements, like fish oil). You will likely want to involve someone close to you - most likely your spouse - to help you see the differences in your actions, because you may not notice the affect of the treatment yourself, and so may think it is not working. Trust your spouse's perception of this more than your own. Again, treatment for the ADHD in general will likely help you mitigate the anger in specific.

But, just like any other ADHD symptom, you will have to unlearn deeply ingrained habits. The medication, etc will enable you to start unlearning, but will will not immediately on its own result in the "unlearning". For the short fuse anger issues, you might want to contemplate inserting a "gap" between stimulus and response. By that I mean being very conscious of external stimulus that has lead to past episodes of temper (ask your spouse to help), actively look for it in a prospective manner, and then anticipate when you see such stimulous approaching, actively make time for yourself in that time gap between stimulous and response to contemplate what you are going to do, and how you are going to react. It is much like counting to ten, and actively thinking about your response, rather than just reacting. Understand that you are a human being, not an animal, and that humans have the abilty to control their own actions. Be purposeful in this. Practice it. Make it a new habit. Don't fall prey to just letting yourself repond on autopilot. Take control.

You will find that this new "habit" of purposefully and consciously inserting yourself and your will and reason into that widening gap between stimulous and response also will benefit any communications you have with your spouse. Often times, ADHD'ers automatically respond to what we expect our spouse is going to say long before they say it. We have, thru many years of conditioning, been "training" ourselves on what we expect we will hear (disappointment, "orders", having your spouse act like a parent with your role being relegated to being a seven-year-old child), and so we "react", with fully formed responses, often immediately after, or even before, the spouse forms the first word. Actively insert your "gap" there, as well. Know that it is hard to listen while your own mouth is open.

So, chemical treatment (typical pharmacological and exercise/diet induced) to enable you to be able to change the habits, and then active, purposeful widening the gap between stimulous and response and inserting your newly-discovered free will into it, aided by your spouse (this last part will be very hard, but that is a much longer topic), in your responses to actions around you. Take control. Understand that the chemicals will help you do this, but won't do it for you. Show that you are different from the animals and seven-year-olds in being able to take control of your actions.

Adding Time

"For the short fuse anger issues, you might want to contemplate inserting a "gap" between stimulus and response." George's comment has a lot of good advice.

For anger management, professionals have also recommended treatment for depression, which may include chemical intervention and cognitive behavior therapy (CBT). CBT is basically, as George mentioned, Concentrating on thoughts Before Taking action.

The most important part of this therapy is the slowing down. Whether it's adhd, depression or anxiety causing severe reactions, the most helpful action I've found is to slow all your actions. It may be necessary to remove yourself quickly from the upsetting environment, but to really help yourself, you must slow down the thinking.

Get rid of your excess energy with exercise, if needed, but then deliberately slow down and examine why the situation upset you. I KNOW how frustrating years and years of misunderstanding can be, and the buildup can cause serious damage (excess cortisol) to your brain and your patterns.

You can do it! Use your hyperfocus superpower, again and again, and you'll accomplish this goal.

been there...

I completely understand where you are. I have been there myself. My ADHD husband thinks that I'm the problem. I felt like I had to cut off all emotion and expect nothing of him to survive in my marriage. But, obviously that is not the answer. The problem is that they don't truly understand what ADHD does to their spouses. I've tried to get my husband on this site so that he could see the other side of things but he's in denial.

What has worked for me is to stop focusing so much on him. I thought back to when I was most happiest in my life. I thought about what types of things I was doing and who I had in my life at that time. I began participating in the hobbies and activities that brought me happiness and reconnected with friends who were supportive. In this way, I was able to slowly bring myself out of depression.

I can sympathize

I have the same issue with my husband. He's convinced that it was me. He's even told his friends and family that it was me, and I can't even begin to tell you how much this hurt. Thank goodness that we--and I--have a fair number of close friends and family who can see the truth for themselves and don't believe a word of it. But my in-laws, no--they have blinders on as far as he's concerned, and they'll believe anything he tells them. It was painful enough to have my life and our once-happy marriage utterly torn apart my his disorder, but then to have him lie to everyone and tell them that he and his ADD had no part in this, and that I was the monster and he was the victim, was just too much for me. It's the saddest and most horrible thing I can imagine someone doing to you--destroying your life, and then lying to turn your friends and family against you.

He won't see an ADD specialist, I think partially because he doesn't want to be told that his mental disorder caused the disintegration of our marriage. I don't think he could take that, so he stays with a non-ADD therapist who tells him what he wants to hear.

I've very recently given up on him. Not just on the marriage--on my husband as a person. He's not a horrible man, but his condition--and his approach to dealing with it (or, more accurately, not dealing with it)--will be the death of me, and I have to get away from him. For months, I thought it was my job to "save" him and "save" my marriage, but I was getting so hurt from all of the misplaced blame. Finally, my therapist told me something that made me understand what I was dealing with, and now I just cannot see myself married to him any longer. She told me that if he continued to refuse to take responsibility for his condition and the damage it had caused (and was causing) to me and our marriage, and--worse--to pin the issues on me instead of placing the blame in its proper place, he was no better than an alcoholic or drug addict in willful denial. This was like a glass of cold water to the face for me. He has a condition, he knows he has a condition, and he's learned enough to know that it's what wreaked so much havoc in our lives and hurt me (and him) so deeply. For him to scapegoat me and to refuse to take responsibility for himself is more than I'm willing to endure.

I'm in the same "sinking"

I'm in the same "sinking" boat. Only difference with us is my husband realizes, finally, that most of our problems stemmed from this disorder. Still, he won't take the proper steps to help himself.

Mine won't see an ADD specialist, either. I'm sure it is for the same reason you have mentioned. My husband's counselor tells him what he wants to hear, too. Very frustrating as we are getting nowhere fast.

Luckily, we don't have many close friends and our families know about the whole deal. Blame is no longer an issue, thank goodness.

It isn't our job to save anyone or anything by ourselves. It takes the two people involved and when one doesn't do their part, it is an uphill battle. I guess that is where the loving detachment comes in and you just have to let go and let them deal with it themselves. It's no fun but it's the only way I keep my sanity.

I think what your therapist told you makes alot of sence. So many ADHDers are fighting addictions that help keep them in denial of facing the real problem.

I feel for you. You know how much you can take and for how long. All of us do. Hang in there.

ok, luckily you don't have

ok, luckily you don't have many close friends? It's sad that I can relate to that. Means I don't have to deal with any frustrating behaviors out in public. He's got such a gift for making me look like the bad guy, I'm always defending myself. And family? Both sides here are strained from the effects of this genetic disorder. One side is in denial and the other is enabling.

I'm so grateful to have found this site, so good share (and vent) sometimes!

So you are leaving him? I

So you are leaving him? I must say I'm envious at the thought of it. It seems so difficult and yet, so hopeful... just thinking of the possibility of a calm, structured life alone or even a simple relationship with normal problems makes me wonder. I'm not in a position to leave and don't know if I ever will be. I always thought I could very well find myself attracted to the same kind of situation again which would be awful! Your therapist is right. Hang on to what you know is true.

The best of luck to you whatever you do...

In a sense

He left me, physically, but I've finally left him emotionally. It's very freeing, and I'm optimistic about things for the first time in years. I wish I would have "left" him like this and let go long ago. Life is too short to be controlled and made miserable by someone else's blindness.

Of all the comments, I have

Of all the comments, I have read I can relate to this...I too... am jealous/envious of the thought,of leaving! I dream of stability, mature decision making, taking responsibility of one 's own actions.... a day were there is no phone calls to our home, with over due payments of some kind! Were calmness re-side's and there is some sort of structure...were I am not blamed for things, because there is some one eles in the house hold that has an issue, or problem, disorder...like ADHD or what ever!!!!will take responsibility for his own behaviors instead of turning it around to me!....He's on his 11Th job search, in our 5 year marriage. Yet, he clams if I wasn't so upset at his job losses... he things would run more smoothly...what? Is this about me or him??? I've held a job, thank you very much for 12 years, after a bitter first divorce I rose up, and got a job, and still have it! And, to top every thing off....I have a "new" physical diagnosis...RA, so I too am in no position to leave ...BUT, I sure do dream of the calmness and stability...a clean home:) that I use to have before I married. Please forgive me for if I sound angry...I am, I dont know what to do??? I wish I were well enough to leave, I wish I didnt feel so sorry for him,or feel I am obligated,beacuse of marriage vow's...beacuse I really think I would do it...leave!

Were does one turn...what does one do?

What helps me is

+ The room I've had to myself for the last six months

+ Lots of prayer

+ Music I can lose my self in

+ Listening to positive motivational speakers

+ Outings with friends

+ This website

+ An occasional glass of wine

+ A good workout at the gym

+ The steam room

he's not there

Hello BreadBaker...

Sorry to hear about your situation. You posted in my thread at http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/find-volunteer-slapper-your-husband-and-reason and I really wish someone would talk to your ADD husband, as he is not where I'm at with accepting my ADHD... he's still living life with a blanket over his head, stumbling and stepping on loved one's in his path... I guess for some it takes days to see it in themselves after they are diagnosed, for others is takes years or perhaps never can admit it. As soon as I was diagnosed and started reading about ADHD, how it affects marriages, talking to psychologists, a light bulb went off immediately for me. Unfortunately, too late, apparently my ADHD marriage wore out my wife and has too many others negatively influencing her.. she cannot forgive and is divorcing me.

To all the non-ADHD women on this forum, all I can say... you all must be very strong. If your ADD husband admits his mistakes, there is hope to stay in. If he won't admit anything, perhaps time to move on. After I was finally diagnosed, my wife didn't even give me a chance to see changes, so those of you that are still trying to save the ADHD marriage, you can at least can say you did and waited your best, that's all an ADHD marriage can ask for.

Thanks Dan

Hi Dan,

Thank you for your post about hope after a husband's acceptance of ADHD and admitting his mistakes. I (and probably others too!) needed to hear this since there are so many negative posts about the same behaviours repeating over and over again despite promises and attempts to fix the relationship... My husband has made an amazing turnaround and is now seeking help after the diagnosis. I have forgiven him and need to stay hopeful so that we can keep the momentum going. I am so sorry that your wife didn't give you another chance because it sure sounds like you hit bottom and are now able to turn your life around. Good luck to you!

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom

"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom." - George S. Patton.

Thanks for the note and wishes of good luck. Yes absolutely, this divorce is me hitting bottom, but it offers a springboard to bounce back and turn things around. ADHD has pros and cons, I'm finally discovering to control it to be successful in relationships and career. Thank you and I appreciate it, but don't be sorry for me... I am sad and feel worse for my kids but I know I'll be okay and will bounce back very high... be sorry for the ADHD families not as fortunate as you and your husband. You two making progress and staying together is a ADHD marriage success story, that seems to be rare on this site. A married couple both acknowledging ADHD, working together and forgiving each other is the hardest/slowest but most noble thing to do; we all got married for a reason! Divorce by comparison, is the easy and quick solution, why so many marriages end up that way. I feel sorry for so many of the discussion threads on this site... so many sad stories. Your story is good to hear and may offer hope to some wives and wisdom to some husbands. Thank you.

Divorce is neither easy nor

Divorce is neither easy nor quick. In fact, it is extremely painful and heartbreaking to give up on all of your dreams and hopes...to give up all of your shared memories. However, sometimes there is no other alternative. At least one person might emerge as a happy person, at least have a chance where there is none in the marriage. Quite possibly, both will since it seems the ADHD spouse only lives in the moment and often quickly moves on without even noticing the destruction left behind.

each marriage is different

Jeannie, what I meant is divorce is easy/quick in comparison to the couple trying to work it out. To work it out, it takes two... a wife and husband to put in countless hours of marriage work, time, devotion, will power, therapy, and asking counselors for "help us with our problem". But to divorce, it just takes one to call a lawyer to say, "I don't want to work on my marriage anymore without a guarantee, get me out" and lawyer replies, "no problem, pay me a retainer and I'll get you out, guaranteed". Lawyers can guaranteed you a divorce, marriage counselors cannot guarantee you a happy marriage. In most States, you can get a divorce in 4 months, even if the other doesn't want it. It's legally easy/quick to get a divorce, compared to emotionally staying and working on keeping a marriage for a lifetime. It's why 50% of marriages don't last... many marriages should end (violence, addiction, tiger woods, etc... and why the law makes it easy for anyone "legally" to divorce)... but honestly, many marriages shouldn't end (ADHD, miscommunication)... but it was the easiest and looked like the least painful choice at the time. Again, each marriage, each couple, each story is different... nothing should be generalized and I didn't mean to generalize. Put it this way, all marriages likely didn't go bad in 4 months.... but they sure can ended in 4 months, regardless if appropriate or not. Relatively, divorce is quick and easy. Perhaps not an easy decision, but once the right or wrong decision is made... easy to do.

even if divorce easy, aftermath may not be

Dan, I have to say I'm with Jeannie on this one. You make the point that a marriage counselor can't guarantee you a happy marriage but a lawyer can guarantee you a divorce. That's true -- but the lawyer can't guarantee you a *happy* divorce. And I'm not sure an unhappy divorce is any better than an unhappy marriage!

Various members of my extended family have tried divorce -- one wife almost drank herself to death during the divorce process from depression; one divorce was amicable; one divorce was very bitter. In the first case, the divorce process was dropped; in case of the amicable divorce, bitter disputes erupted after the divorce was finalized because the parties did not abide by the settlement; the third (bitter) divorce ended up with them remarrying after five or six years. So it seems to me that the process isn't always so easy, and what comes afterwards may not be so easy, either. And none of these divorce proceedings in my family involved minor children! Custody and child support issues are definitely *not* easy repercussions of divorce.

Divorce may be easy in some small number of cases where both parties are trustworthy and are parting as friends, or for anyone who has an "out of sight, out of mind" mental process, but I'm sorry to say that I've never seen it be easy for anybody else.

When ADD is part of the mix, divorce can get even more complicated and painful. The kinds of issues that created problems in the marriage can spill over into the post-divorce interactions. An ADD spouse who had trouble with paying the bills can have trouble paying child support on time. An ADD spouse who had trouble remembering to pick his/her kids up from school/sports/whatever may have trouble abiding by custody arrangements. There are many more opportunities for post-divorce problems.

Not easy at all.

Years, not days

As soon as I started typing that subject line, I remembered that this is how relatives of patients in a coma are taught to measure progress: in years, not days. I think that my husband is at the "years" stage, which is why I'm giving up and moving on.

A friend and fellow ADD sufferer did talk to him, and it didn't seem to do much good--he's just too far into denial. Maybe after he's ruined another marriage or two, he'll see a pattern, but I don't think he's emotionally invested enough in me or this marriage for my divorcing him to come as the jolt that would make him rethink things and take action. So, it's time for me to move on.

i can really relate to your

i can really relate to your words. it IS one of the most hurtful things a person can do to the one they love, [making add issues your fault]the one who not only sees their issues but still accepts them more or less and is only trying to place the problems of the relationship into a context of adhd. to have the supportive, open mindset of putting the issues of the relationship in their proper place, so that they can then be worked on, understood, moved beyond is exactly the kind of mental organization non adhd people often have--and often the exact same kind of organization and problem solving the non adhd partner doesn't have.

it is very hard, once you are invested in a relationship with your add partner, to not conceptually grasp why they 1) arent appreciative of our efforts to live with thier add and 2) aren't hopping on board with us to handle the add symptoms so that they dont destroy the relationship. we are so deeply hurt by the way their immature defensive reasoning system places blame on us, punishes us and turns others against us. it is a maddening and heart hurting series of blows to endure when your heart is connected to another. i am having all of this happen now and also feel ostrascized by my partner to his friends--he even tells me what they have told him about me when he has relayed our problems or specific incidents to them: "you should just leave her." as quoted by his best friend. "it doesnt sound like this person is healthy for you."another friend says. "wow, i didnt know she was that crazy." his best friend who came and stayed at my house as a guest!!! Not only does he tell me what they say, then he asks me to come to a get together where these people are and doesn't think anything about it!! How can I even face these people--to whom he has run me down to--all over issues of his own adhd that he refuses to contemplate--even tho he knows he has add and takes medication for it?? I thimk the level of denial and internal defences of people like my guy..in his add life.. are steeped in a shakey center of self--which wasnt delveloped in childhood and therefore cant be the rock it needs to be so he can accept responsibilty or understand basic cause-effect. and this is also a hallmark of an addict--who cant understand why they lost job/marriage because of their drinking/drug use.

i think as children, those with add internalize many messages of negativity..they feel like they cant do anything right, or they have failures at things where others are sucessful and they feel inept. the defences form around these wounds and they can cement there. fast forward to the child being an adult..the defence mechanism is so continually put to use in life to manage add consequences [its not my fault i lost the job, the boss was fill in the blank. its not my fault i didnt set aside money for bills..its not my fault that relaitonship ended] that it is ROCK SOLID. the add person has multiple levels of consequences [work/bills/life goals/follow thru/ relationships]from their untreated or unconscious add traits..but they simply do not have the strong ego development [from childhood] that would allow them to be able to take personal responsibility for these losses or have the emotional maturity to place them into context that its not them personally that has failed..it is add symptoms that have made completing a task or success at something they are invested in impossible. they have such a pile up of unachieved goals and such a pit of despair for failure that--i think--when things start to go south, they slip accorss this invisable line and employ all of their defences. these are things they have used over and over thru the years so they are a master at using them. they have hard time seperating themselves from the add..so when an event presents itself with the same spirialing criteria for failure as every other event has in their life, they operate with the same childhood defenses built to protect them then. because they have everything invested in protecting their fragile ego and need their perspective validated, they often choose friends who will shore them up or support them whole heartedly--without considering the truth in the context of add. its a sad side of the eclispe to find yourself on. you are no longer in their light, but in their dark side. its heart ache and loniless and it can shake your core trust in yourself because you beleive the love is/was real. but the truth is that a weakly developed ego--which can happen with add [also chemicals flooding the frontal cortex in the developing adhd brain are cited as resulting in add individuals being emotionally immature. and when you think about it, emotional maturity is alot about putting things into a broader emotional context so that they can be understood and responded to consciously. if you arent able to put things into context or respond in a conscious way, but just as a reacting or aggressvie way, interpretting things as an attack or not able to see a bigger picture, then it would be really hard to navigate any of these broader scope issues in a relationship.

the thing that is important to remember is that you cannot take it personally. yes it hurts. yes it is devastating. but the real issue is that the love is real, but when two people have a working relationship levels of intellect and contextualizing information are ESSENTIAL--as is a inner ego solidity that would allow both parties to take responsibility for their actions and have a framework for communicating differences and resolving hurts so that sustainability is possible. without these base abilities, your husbands add made a glass ceiling in your relationship and unfortunatly you have been bumping up against it far sooner than you thought you would be. he just wasn't able to process things in any way that would make them workable and he isnt with the inner fortitude of ego strength to be able to take responsibility for his actions or his symptoms of add. so he has slipped across that invisable line, talking about you to friends, blaming you for the loss. he has jumped ship to avoid another add related failture becasue he is too psycholigically fragile to accept it. to him, he is melded with add, so any admittance of it would be like him admitting he was a failure--where as you can seperate the add from your husband and treat is as symptoms, he cannot. since he had to work so hard to overcome that as a child, he ego defenses will not allow him to get anywhere near that as an adult. and he hasnt delevoped his emotional maturity in a conscious way to be able to transcend that limitation .

my most signiigant loves and losses were with men with add. i now understand it more fully and know better than to evr get emotionally invested in the love part of the relationship until the add partner has showen me they have enough awareness and integration with their add that our realationship will have a framework to work out problems and a communication style that will make sustainabilty possible. at the first sign of slammed doors or erupting anger over small snags, i will not go one step further down the wormhole. because add can make an individual so unique, our love is so strong and we dont want to let go..but the danger in that is that we're seeing them only with love..and we need to understand what the consequeces to our hearts and quality of life will be if we commit to a partner with add who has not done the work within themselves to acknowledge it and find ways of dealing with its symptoms.

It is rare that I am

It is rare that I am speechless...but I am completely speechless after reading this. I could have never said it this eloquently, but I agree 100% with everything you said.

"because they have everything invested in protecting their fragile ego and need their perspective validated"

and...

"but the truth is that a weakly developed ego--which can happen with add [also chemicals flooding the frontal cortex in the developing adhd brain are cited as resulting in add individuals being emotionally immature. and when you think about it, emotional maturity is alot about putting things into a broader emotional context so that they can be understood and responded to consciously. if you arent able to put things into context or respond in a conscious way, but just as a reacting or aggressvie way, interpretting things as an attack or not able to see a bigger picture, then it would be really hard to navigate any of these broader scope issues in a relationship."

I am so touched...and enlightened by this I am on the verge of tears. I truly believe it. The first comment goes directly with my thoughts that my husband sees me as some sort of 'enemy'. Everything is a perceived criticism and the defenses go up and this is exactly why.

Wow...just simply wow. Thank you.

thanks..

Thanks for the mad props... Yeah so the (in my opinion) the add relationship is kind of taking place on a chess board. And you've just been checked! Your guy has slid you over an invisible line and the square you stand over went from white to dark. Welcome to the mind bending reality of all three of my adhd relationships. Now the best way to get back to a white square is ---and i know this might sound like I'm being vindictive but I'm actually being sincere...is to not hold him accountable for his actions.to heal yourself from his transgressions..without him..get yourself back to a place of center or serenity by either moving into s spare room or doing lots of you activities that you've given up..and reset yourself...with the new understanding that your guy in some ways has reactionary levels of a toddler..there are things he cannnot do..try to peel it back to the love affair part..remember that stage? When you had energy and life force and excitement for him..if he rises to the occassion and acts again ad he did when you were in the love affair part than you have a better chance of getting some--not all but some of your needs met. Why? Because the add person--without the willing and evolving perspective that Dan above has..can't..under any circumstances..take responsibility for the transgressions against you..can't stop doing them..can't self control their reactions..can't understand emotional context..it is outside of him right now..so when I stay with myguy I do so under terms I can live with...I pull back, heal my hurt because I get he isn't able to heal it w me..I stay away or out of the way a few days and i get right again in my head. I understand he has major major limitations and there are many things I both want and need from him that I will not get if i ask..I know he gives even less if he feels me looking to him for anything. I basically tune all my energy to me..and as the feeling clears and i look to him for nothing..and i am clear because I've healed me..!an amazing thing happens...he holds me or asks me to do something or we have a romantic night. I basically put myself into the moment by moment reality he is in..and i make myself able to be there by getting centered..then its almost as if he can feel no pressure, no looking,to him for resolution, no looking to him w expectation or for him to clean up the mess he made w my emotions...and in that freedom his defences retract..I slide across an invisable line to a white square and i get some need fullfillment for the hour or day or few days I can keep this up. Yes its a stretch but honestly its the only way I've discovered to be that allows me to stay a while longer in the relationship and keep getting some of what I used to from him. A bit of emotional slight of hand?,perhaps but the two alternatives...leave..try to get him to see are too stressful to contemplate just today..this is my.method to reset..I know its not for everyone..

Thanks, I needed to be

Thanks, I needed to be reminded of that! It does take a constant mental effort to not focus on what I see every day. Sometimes I start treading water for a while though I know that I need to keep swimming, I just get tired of always swimming upstream. I'm going to have to work on a little attitude adjustment! Craft night anyone? :)

Yes!

Oh, yes. I've entirely rediscovered my crafty ways over the past few years, just as a coping mechanism, a way to calm myself after all of the household crazy-making. ADD Spouse Knitting Circle, anyone? ;-)

ADHD aka Civil War

I loved this! I have much to contribute later, but this is awesome!!! I would say inspired

reply to Clarity

I could have written these same words... Thank you for sharing. This helps me to know I'm not alone.

would surrender mean you lost

would surrender mean you lost the war or would it mean the start of peace in your life. This would make you the winner. This is the question i ask myself right now. Why do we continue to go back. I have no idea where my hope comes from that he will someday be the man I need my husband to be. I see change when I throw a tantrum and get angry but always for just a day or two. How long can i hold on. Ive said i'm done so many times i think he laughs when i say it, like yea right. I'm so sorry for anyone living the life i'm living and as i read this site I find quite a few and most don't give much ray of hope in things really changing over time just different way of dealing with the way we cope. It is far beyond my compehension as to how my husband thinks. I think he lives strickly in the present no thoughts of tommorrow or yesterday. When his mother died I saw him cry once, he has never once mentioned that he misses her yet he says he had a wonderful loving mother and childhood. He could go forever and never see his grown children, or wonder how they are doing. This makes me wonder would he even miss me if i left would he remember any good times? I feel like it would just be another thing that happened and on he'd go with his merry little self. He never shows emotion or supports me when i'm hurting. When our grandaughter was in a terrible auto accident which left her semi unresponsive he never once cried held me or offered any comfort. I have sooo much resentment he's never there for me. Why do I stay when will I go?

change in coping can make a difference

You say, "...most don't give much ray of hope in things really changing over time just different way of dealing with the way we cope..."

But changing the way we cope can cause other, real, important changes in the way you and your partner interact.

My husband was diagnosed with ADD 15 years ago, when we'd already been married for 20 years (but he didn't show many ADD symptoms when we married -- he had problems as a kid, "grew out" of it during puberty, then "grew back in" to it around age 40). Our relationship had been getting progressively worse before he was diagnosed. When he was diagnosed, there were no resources like this site or Dr. Hallowell's books to help me, so our progress was very slow, trial and error. I had to learn to understand how my husband's brain worked pretty much on my own.

By gradually figuring out how my husband's mind operated, I was able to figure out with him different ways for each of us to cope. That improved our interactions. I worked at reducing my anger, he worked at improving communication. His counselor suggested some other things we could do. Even so, my husband and I did separate for almost a year at one point. Now we are about to celebrate our 35th wedding anniversary, and we are doing better than we have for 20 years.

It takes a lot of work from both partners. We both have wanted to quit at times. It takes a lot of persistence. Medication and counseling for the ADD partner are key. Resources like this site and Dr. Hallowell's books can help understanding. If you and your spouse are willing to do these "coping" things, your relationship *can* get better.

Good luck!

Your post from Jan., 2010

I realize this is a delayed response, but your story sounded so much like ours it was eerie. My husband wasn't diagnosed until we sought diagnosis for our two kids and low and behold he must be the carrier (haha.) But most of the time it isn't ha ha for me it is boo-hoo.

There is some validation for me to read these posts from others who seem to have walked in these very shoes. Recently I was looking for a room to rent thinking a time out might help (the kids are 19 and 23 now, even though they are both still at home.) But I'm fighting that urge. A good friend of mine is encouraging me to do. I worry about the $$ (even if I just rent a room) of separate living arrangements become part of the mix.

rent a room?

At one point in our relationship when I was struggling to figure out what to do I moved into a separate bedroom for a few weeks. This gave me a private space of my own, time to read and think, and the separation I needed to work through a few things without the financial issues or statement of moving out. It also sent the message that I wasn't happy with the status quo, which probably also gave my husband a chance to think about things, too.

Note that I'm not a believer in booting a spouse out of the bedroom - that room "belongs" to both of you, so if you need a break, I feel that it's your own responsibility to find that distance for yourself (and more respectful...less parenting/domineering).

Perhaps this idea might work for you?

Surrender means peace but

only on the outside. Inside, I am still not heard, my real needs are ignored by the ADDman who insists that I conform to his world. If I surrender, am I like a Stepford wife? It seems that he just wants me to behave favorably toward him and support him no matter what he does. It is near impossible to respond favorably to his unprovoked anger towards me and to just enjoy the financial problems he's caused. He wants me to be proud of him, look at him with adoration, hang on his every word... If I neglect the confusion and turmoil in my heart and put on a false front, all is peaceful on the outside. I've actually tried this for a time... It's not me. There is no true interaction, no exchange, no partnership. I feel neglected, abandoned and alone in a marriage that I never dreamed possible. If I could go, I would.

The US got through the Civil War

And perhaps like the US Civil War, where the tragic, bitter divide between North and South eventually ended and the states united once again to became much stronger than ever before, this is also the best that families dealing with ADHD can hope for. Thank you for such a well explained article of insight.

Trying one more time

In my last note, I told of how my husband found an apartment and was moving out on Friday.

Well, we were meeting at the bank on Wednesday to close and separate our accounts. We met there as planned. As we were walking up to the door of the bank, he decides to have this great revelation of how much he loves me, not because of what I can do for him, but because of who I am. He said all the things I was hoping he would say. He said we are worth fighting for and he gave the promises of what he would do. I told him I was terrified to try again but I loved him and was willing to try because he loved me. We did not close our accounts. On the way home he picked up a pizza and I picked up some wine. We had a good conversation and I shared this web site with him. He really seemed encouraged. He seemed anxious to learn from this web site and find new tools to use to help rebuild us.

He agreed that we needed healing and said he would do all these wonderful things. Can anyone guess where this is going............ He has taken the puppy out all weekend without prodding. He has been a little more attentive. As far as checking out this site, or looking for a job to supplement his 32 hours or doing tasks around the house or yard, forget about it. He has not gone to this site once. He has not scheduled the wonderful weekend away that he was going plan for us.

We are right back to where we were before. The only difference is, I feel like I was "played" and I am more stuck than ever. It took alot to admit to our families that there were insurmountable problems and our marriage was over. Then it took alot to tell everyone who was so supportive of the split that I was giving him another chance. I think our youngest daughter is actually mad at me for giving him another chance. She has said I deserve happiness and she has seen me unhappy so long, she doesn't even remember if I ever was happy.

We had an arguement this morning over his continuous naps and patterns of "doing nothing". His statement was, "why should I get up and work just because you decided it is time for us to get up and work?" I understand his point, but we had such a big 'to do' list that we did not start with our list, we would never get it done. These things were 'have tos' - not 'want tos'. We had gotten out of bed one hour earlier. How can someone need a nap one hour after he gets up? Especially since he had had several naps on Friday and Saturday. He has no sickness, he is not yet 50, he only worked 32 hours this week and took a nap every afternoon after work!! He makes me crazy.

So I ask, now what do I do? I will not go back to living the life I was living. (Or will I?)

one more time

The napping pattern, assuming he's getting about 7-8 hours of sleep at night, suggests a possible depression (very very common with ADHD) or a sleep disorder that means he's not getting good sleep. You might suggest he talk with his doctor.

Why didn't you go ahead and separate out the bank accounts in any event? Separate finances don't necessarily mean you would get divorce, but it's a step towards independence that sounds as if it might help you feel more in control of your own destiny. It would also reinforce that you are serious about changes really needing to happen. Feeling played is the worst feeling...

Whether or not you keep the apartment depends upon your financial situation - can you afford to have that back up?

I would suggest that you keep moving ahead with what you need to do for you - be very clear about your goals, what you need. Perhaps you needed to feel as if you should be responsive to your husband's overtures. Yet now you are in a worse position than before and feel burned. So, back to the drawing board...From your brief description it sounds as if you would benefit from setting a very specific time frame for him - "I need to see these specific, measurable improvements, along with evidence that you have put new systems in place to sustain those improvements, by X date or I will be moving out. I will be as supportive of your efforts as I can, but understand that I will not be taken advantage of, nor played for a patsy." Think of it as "loving detachment". In the meantime, you may want to consider separating out the bank accounts anyway so he can't clean you out in a fit of pique.

sounds like I wrote this

I just read through your post,it caught my attention beacuse it sounds like I could have written it.My husband got "layed off" from his 11 th job before christmas...(noteing your post date 11/1/09) today is Feb.14/10 and he still has not looked for work...he too takes way too many naps!I feel your fustration...whats a wife to do????

I hope things have changed for the better for you:)

Forgiveness for myself

This blog about aggression has revived me to try once again to make my marriage work. Tonight I lay in my bed feeling completely stuck because once again I used an intensively aggressive tone to try to get my husband to do an important task that he has continued to avoid for weeks. Once again we spent the evening in separate rooms because he completely shut down and I couldn't talk to him without yelling. Over and over as I lay there was the refrain in my head: "What can I do? What can I do?" I knew within the first year of being with him that he probably had ADHD, and I was the one who encouraged him to get diagnosed. But since his positive diagnosis, he has not really addressed the disorder, and he doesn't understand or underestimates its impact on our marriage. What makes me so sad is my own aggressive behavior toward him, that seems so foreign to me in most of my other relationships with people. And it seems so hard to stop behaving aggressively because otherwise it feels like I have nothing to combat the frustration I feel. Reading this blog has given me new insights, and as well as some tips I can use to develop more self-control and to use other, more effective approaches. The biggest need I have right now is learning how to forgive myself for my past (and still present) behavior in the face of a partner who has not yet taken responsibility for his own disorder.

Forgiving Self

The way that I was able to forgive my past aggressive behavior was to allow that the response was a reasonable response, just the wrong one. I didn't blame myself for my aggression, but made a very conscious decision. It was clear that the aggression was adding to the problems in our relationship, not helping either one of us. Did I wish to continue to add to our problems? Did I wish to continue to behave in a way that made me feel awful about myself now that I was aware that I was doing it? I decided not. So I could forgive myself for the past behavior. I had been doing the best I could up until that point...but now I had some different perspective that inspired me to try to do better. It is easy to imagine forgiving your spouse for their past behavior provided they do better today and tomorrow. Should it not be just as easy to forgive yourself for your past provided you do better today and tomorrow? You will need a different outlet for that frustration, though, in order to be successful. New conversational patterns, new ways to clear the path so that your husband can see how hard his ADHD symptoms are on you, new ways to take care of yourself.

Reasonable but wrong response

Thank you for your kind response. I've been thinking about it for a few days, and it has been helpful. I have a lot of self-awareness, and I know I'm not prone to violent or aggressive tendencies on a regular basis. Given the constant terrible stress of ADHD symptoms, those tendencies in me--that I believe lie dormant in all people actually--rose to the surface and became my dominant response in my household. I agree that my response seemed reasonable considering the circumstances, but it did not get me anywhere toward improving my marriage. Now using skills I'm gleaning from this web site, I am trying to carve out a new path for myself. To me one of the most important things I can do is something I read on your site about "boundary setting," which I can't seem to find again. It is to take responsibility for living my own "true" self, and to let my husband live his true self. This is very hard to do, but I am going to try. This week has been a much better week for me in a long time. I was actually singing in the mornings, something I haven't done in a long time. However, my marriage seems on hold right now. I'm realizing that it takes patience and time for healing and change to take place. Thanks again for being there.

Does being "true" hurt my child?

I'm really interested in these ways of coping but conflicted about the effect my husband's ADD has on my son. My 49-yr-old husband takes Vyvanse but that's it -no counseling or behavior modification and he won't read any book, article or website. The vyvance helps a bit, but, as you can guess, not entirely. He's very verbally aggressive when he gets frustrated because he hasn't prepared himself for an appointment or I've held him accountable for not following through. Am I sending the message to my son that it's all right for dad to scream aggressively and be impatient with mom (as well as with my 3-yr-old)? I'm so sick of being yelled at, especially when I'm the one earning the money and doing 80% of the work. Nothing happens to improve our life unless I make it happen. I constantly grieve the fact that I didn't marry an adult who takes care of his family. I'm also bitter that he can hyperfocus on things he's interested in; well, why isn't one of those things a focus on being a provider? I'm also bitter about the idea that I have to do even MORE work to deal with his ADD, like learning techniques, researching, going to counseling, etc. How do I let go of this bitterness, accept him for who he is, and not feel constantly undermined? I apologize for this rant, but I'm near tears and just don't know how to keep going. Divorce is not an option, as I don't believe in it for me, and after all, I do love him.

dbcarrots

What does being true to yourself mean?

I read your response to the post thread that I started. My immediate thought was, it really depends on what "being true to yourself" means to you. For me, it means living my life with integrity, demonstrating respect to others through my example of (a) respecting myself and (b) setting healthy boundaries with others when they don't respect me. Since the posts from last year, I am happy to report that I have been able to make a huge change. I'm still in my marriage, and things are getting better because I am showing up differently. In counseling, I learned new techniques and I am applying them. For example, it is very rare now that I engage in aggressive behavior toward my husband. Here's an example of how I do things differently that might pertain to you. Now if we're in a conversation and he gets angry and hurtful or blames me for his own lack of preparedness, I ask him to speak to me in a milder tone, without contorting his face in anger, pounding the table, saying things I feel are disrespectful to me, and so forth. If he refuses, I simply tell him I feel uncomfortable talking with him when he speaks to me like that and that I am leaving the room and am happy to talk with him when he can talk to me more calmly and respectfully. At first, this strategy made him angrier and more shut down. But once he realized that I am serious - that I will not engage in negative behaviors with him because I feel they hurt our marriage and I want our marriage to succeed - things started to change. He is starting to show up differently and be calmer and more respectful. What I'm trying to say is that I finally accepted that I can only regulate my own emotions/behaviors, not his. And I believe that by mastering myself and living from integrity and deep self-respect, my husband is responding to me differently. It's taken many months, by the way - there are no quick fixes and there are many things that still need to change - but for the first time, I have hope that my relationship with my husband might really improve and we can be happy together. I hope this helps.

i understand the analogy, but how do i (or my marriage) survive?

i guess the venting worked (see below), at least for now. once i got all that out, i was less angry. we had a calm, civil, if not exactly affectionate, talk about real stuff. it rarely holds, but at least i can take some hope from it, and refer back to today's conversation if patterns repeat.

___________________________________

i guess i'm just venting, feeling lost, since i have many reasons to have hope. my husband just started his diagnosis/testing process with what appears to be a great clinic. it is apparent to everyone that the probably diagnosis is adult ADD, possibly with some comorbid conditions. he's open to this treatment, and was open with the psychologist. we are in what seems a terminal waiting period for insurance authorizations to happen, appointments to be made, etc. he started a new job this week (yay!) and seems to like it. i hope he keeps it. i'm trying to be so patient and understand that this is a difficult time for him, that he is facing a lot of uncertainty and psychological shifts in the way he thinks and approaches his life. he won't read a single thing on this site, so i guess my biggest problem is how to deal on my own with being the "enemy" right now. a friend has described it as "good practice for when my daughter becomes a teenager." he is so impulsive, i have no choice but to keep an eye on his decision-making, which is totally not my style. as soon as i turn my back for a second, he makes an irrational commitments, starts an unreasonable project or spends money we don't have. he resents seemingly everything about me, especially my best friend, and is making all kinds of petty, snarky comments and accusations. they hurt, but i try to let them all bounce off.

i've been angry, yelled a lot and since realizing the possible issue, tried to calm the rhetoric at home. i am temporarily handling all of the important responsibilities until we make some progress and dig out of this financial and organizational hole. i am extremely stressed, with an eight-month old at home and a busy job as the primary (an until recently, the only) breadwinner. i barely sleep and it's filled with nightmares. i can hardly eat, my stomach feels so small. i know he's hurting trying to face a lot of mistakes. he's had some BIG whammies this year - no job, DUI/lost license, driving drunk with no license (thank God he didn't get caught or hurt anyone), failed business, huge piling debt. at heart he's a wonderful, senstive, creative man. i make sure to tell him regularly what i love about him, just like i always have but more, how great a father he is and point out the progress we've made, even in the last week. i admit my responsibility for my actions and reactions, and apologize for expressing my anger inappropriately. in other words, i'm doing my absolute best to be as emotionally mature as i've ever been. i'm so filled with self doubt. how do i know when i'm doing the right thing? how do i persevere in the face of his arguments and blame? how do i fuel my own emotional well-being when he's not giving me anything to go on but what i do wrong? i'm so tired of being the only one to be accountable and apologize for bad behavior. or the only one thanking him for nice things he does, or his understanding when it's around. when we do connect, and he gets real with me, i get hopeful...then he takes it all back a day or week later.

i try to pick my battles carefully. i feel beat up and empty. the house is full of blues and tension. our daughter is the one source of light, plus the occasional bonding moment between us. we started out loving each other so much, that's why this is so discouraging and so hopeful at the same time...and a whirlwind, scary rollercoaster ride. half the time i believe i'm making his life miserable. other times i'm indignant as hell wondering what he'd do without me or how he'd feel if he followed through on his threats to separate, or to crawl out of this together and then leave me anyway. i think he's all bark with little bite, but i don't really know anything at this point. i feel like i'm expected to have the patience of a kindergarten teacher, while carrying the world like atlas, and fending off the animal that's nipping at my feeding hands. i still believe in him, i still believe there's a chance we could come out of this in love...that this is one of those "worse" times mentioned in our vows. i still think i could admire him as the man in my life, with so many gifts that his ADD brings to the table.

i've been in crisis mode for a while, as soon as i realized i was dealing with an illness, and not willful action. i don't have the time or energy to feel much of anything, i have too much to do. our 4th anniversary is next week on thanksgiving. i want him to feel thankful for his family, like i am. and i want it last more than a day. i guess that's probably too much to expect right now. i want to be a better partner, how do i stay strong or know how to handle this? how do i read these posts about how hard it is and will likely always be and maintain my natural optimism?

like reading my diary

I just needed to know how things are going with you. My husband found this site and I have been drawn in to reading the blogs. Yours struck a cord since it is so similar to my daily life. The situations you mentioned, the fear, stress, emotions, all of it. If you have truly found some skills that have helped you both cope I do hope you will share

Thanks

coping with all new gut-punches

sorry for this crappy update. i fell out of the ADHD support forums and into a different site.... i found out on 12/18, after that post, that part of his most recent insanity, drinking, arguing and absolute absurdity was at least partly a result of him hiding the secret other daughter he likely fathered while i was 8 months pregnant. yeah. found that out when my daughter was 10 mos old.

adhd? substance abuse? do i care how bad he wants to make it better? not sure anymore. i'm not sure that an ADHDer can handle his trashy babymomma, trying to be a father to that b*&^%$d child, be a present and wonderful spouse, successful job-holder/provider, and great father to our daughter. he's acting much better now that the cats out of the bag, but that's a big, dangerous, marriage-mauling cat. he's also just starting some real treatment. i still hold out some hope, though i feel stupid and naive for doing so.

the best thing that came from that is that we separated. we get along much better for now because i deal with about 95% less of his chaos. of course, i'm still in PTSD-land with the affair and all that's going on (paternity stuff, foreclosure, bankruptcy, me starting over where he can't hurt me financially anymore). he knows now that it may take years of separation and him straightening his life out before i'll even consider letting him back in. i will not live with that chaos again, and it's his to fix now...not so much the group effort i'd planned (and dreaded).

besides my tiny daughter, there's really only one thing that's kept me going in all of this --- nothing stays the same. that fact can suck or save me, all in the same breath sometimes. no matter how low or frustrated i get, how close the end of my wits may seem, i just remember that it will change, i will feel differently, even if circumstances stay the same. our emotions never stay the same, good or bad. as for both of us coping...it's better if i make him look for other support. he was using me for all of it. i was disappearing from the weight.

sometimes when i'm really freaking out, mind spinning all over things i don't want to think about, worries i can't do anything about, futures i can't control... i catch myself and start naming all the things i can see or hear around me in that moment ("clouds, street sign, south of the border billboard, red car, personalized tag, car honking, truck backing up") it sounds stupid, and the intrusive thoughts do try to keep coming back, but each time i just go back to naming things i can see IN THE MOMENT. usually 20 minutes later or so i will realize that the headspin stopped, my brain moved onto something else and i never even noticed when it happened.

it's a rollercoaster, or a tossing sea. the best way to manage a violent ocean is to let loose your body and flex with it all...don't fight the emotions, take some time and float through them. "i'm angry as hell right now. that's ok, i hate it and it feels like i will always be exactly this angry...but i will feel different in a few minutes/hours/days, and this will be easier to look at then. so i can just be angry, feel like i want to die and life is over, then later i won't feel that way for a few minutes/days/hours.

make any sense? not sure if i helped, these are not adhd strategies, just emotional ones.

OK Then....

Wow.

Just...wow.

I have adult ADHD. I am 28 years old. And I am now scared of getting into anything even remotely "normal."

I am aware I have the condition. I have been getting help. Not medicine, of course, since I have tried that option...and gone into a living coma. I mean that I have changed my diet, and learnt cues. I even write things down and try to remember them.

I know full well that if anything goes wrong, chances are, it's me. No one will EVER hear me say that anyone else is to blame.

As a woman with ADHD, I have had to go through a lot of stress. I also have put myself through a lot of unnecessary stress. I can admit this. I am also trying my utmost, and sometimes I still fall...

Wow...I can see where you're coming from.

I'm not so sure I can cause others pain like that, so I try to stay single as much as possible. I'm in a relationship now, but...

I don't think it is necessary to stay single!

In my opinion how you are as a marriage mate depends on who you are as a person and how well you manage your ADD symptoms. We all have *stuff* that causes stress for other people to deal with....for some it is a physical diagnosis, for some it is a mental diagnosis, for some it is an abusive childhood, for some it is poor social skills or poor personality traits, etc Whatever challenges we bring to the table, I think we have a responsibility for doing our best to control.

I have a tendency to be perfectionistic while my husband is waaayy into *good enough*. Does that cause challenges, fights, frustration?? YEP YEP and YEP But it is good for me to learn from him and for him to learn from me. We are a good team who sometimes struggle to understand eachother. Every good marriage I know has the same elements....and most of them do not have an ADD diagnosis. Some of the frustration is just learning to live with and communicate with a person who thinks differently from you....perhaps ADD adds a bit of a double whammy to the equation, but there is going to be some friction regardless.

If you can't imagine causing someone that kind of pain then I think it is likely you won't. My husband can't imagine causing pain the likes of which we read about here, and I can guarantee he is incapable of doing it. Some people are lousy people with or without ADD. ADD when it is treated does not preclude having a happy marriage. That said he does at times cause me pain at times he is not implementing coping skills for his ADD, and sometimes I cause him pain with my attitude toward his falling down in implementation--neither of us are TRYING to cause pain and when both of us are actively sorry for hurting eachother and work to do better next time, we get over it, forgive, and are very happy together.

Please don't think you have to go through life alone to *protect* other people from the consequences of dealing with your ADD. I have been married 8 years to an ADD man who was only diagnosed less than 3 years ago, and in our case I can say the positives FAR outweigh the negatives. That said the positives are FAR easier to see and deal with when he is going to his doctor appts (not forgetting them and having to reschedule...only to forget that one too--been there done that and it is SOO frustrating), taking his meds, meeting with his coach either in person or on the phone, and when he is implementing their suggestions in managing his symptoms. It makes us both feel more positive about what he is currently accomplishing and how likely it is that he'll continue accomplishing in the future.

Don't try to stay single, just because of ADD

Just because you have ADHD, doesn't mean you are dangerous to a relationship. Self awareness of ADHD going into a relationship is MORE than half the solution. Great, you've been diagnosed with ADHD, now just harness ADHD and use it's traits for good things, and keep any bad in check and minimized. Again, the diagnoses of ADHD before marriage is huge and helpful! I'm happy and very optimistic for you!

Thanks! That helps a

Thanks! That helps a lot...it's not easy, but it IS possible! I'm not giving up yet...still got a lot to live for!

Neurofeedback or biofeedback as a possible therapy.

I also have and husband with ADD, reading this posts made me feel like I had written them. Just recently one of the last psychologist we visited gave as a book called "A symphony in the Brain" where explain the beginning and the most recent uses of this therapy . Did any of you had tried this (neuro or biofeedback)? For how long and with what results? Thanks

Neuro-what? Can't get that in

Neuro-what?

Can't get that in my country! If I could, maybe it would help. Right now, I'm willing to try it...if they had it.

NEUROFEEDBACK or BIOFEEDBACK

Unfortunately my husband don't want to try this. So the only think I can tell is to read a book: A Symphony in the Brain by Jim Robbins. It explain what is exactly what it is and the results in different cases. Yes, you can find a psychologist or neurologist in the United States who work with this therapy. I will not trust anybody without a formal medical degree. I live in St. Louis Missouri and I found only to psychologist to work with it. I advise you to search in the internet about it. Like everything else you will find positive and negative opinions. I know a friend of mine in Dallas who just started to improve and autism factor they found in the EEG (Brain map test). Their 15 years old daughter also started to treat depression and they are happy with the results. I have a neurologist who use it in their practice to treat migraines.

Good luck and let us know any info you find (I think I have read all of them).

why not try

I am 46 years old and was just diagnosed,add had no idea before.when my wife asked for a divorce I asked-begged her to go to a counsler with me.After the counsler said to get tested i went immidiatly.I truly thought that is just how i was even with som family history of add.I started meds and therapy immediatly.I am reading books internet,add coatching,and studying the effects of what i have been doing to my wife just as much.I dont expect her to forget what i have done.I take full responsability for my actions.But i am truly remorsfull and would seek any treatment nessesary to get healthy and be the husband she deservs.I do addmit she has tried to help by telling me to go and enjoy my self and take on a lot of home responsability.I have worked hard and been a good finatial supporter and good father to our 6 and 9 year old.And will be even better as I continue with any tretment needed .I realize after years of dissappoint ment s reluctance to try.but with two small children who are amazingly happy and good in school.I would like at a try and go to therapy together or to use any resorce availibl to try and keep our family together.I understand i have drained here and say she needs to be her self first and would not expect her to do any thing els first.I just would like to slow down on the divorce.

At wit's end

I have just found this site today. I have been living with this stressful cloud of ADHD over my life for 26 years now. I finally divorced my X after 22 years and yet he continues the conflict. I just wanted out and some peace in my life. He continues to drag us all through the legal system everytime his insecurities and paranoia motivate him to do so. To make matters worse his only accomplishments that garnered him some self esteem were football in high school and college and the Marine Corp after. Unfortunately, both are very aggressive winner take all activites - "come to fight and come to win" as he likes to boast.

If he does not have something to fight about he invents something and seems unable to move on with his life. In spite of the fact, that he took an intentional pay cut of 20%before child support was established, has not paid a penney towards the children's health care, refused to reliquish my half escrow from house sale, refused to pay back taxes that he failed to report and I had to, refused to see the children for several years............ he continues to create more and more problems. In the four years since divorce, he has remarried and seperated within less than 2 years dragging my then 11 year old son with him. My son suffers from the emotional stress and is currently failing the 7th grade after slowly gaining some self-confidence in dealing with his processsing delays in 4th grade. His dad decided that he had to live with him and the woman he married. He moved him across the country, skipped him a grade though he was not at all prepared for that, moved him two move times after the seperation, has refused to allow him to visit me and his brother as much as he has been able to get away with, has recently hit my son in the face with his fist because he is struggling in school. I do not have the money to sucessfully get my son out of his dad's home - it would require a custody evaluation of $10,000+ dollars.

So you talk to me about aggression, I gave up and did not want to deal with him and his denial any longer but now my son is being used a piece of property to "win". As most people realize, there is no winner in these situations - only the child loses and loses big. So don't lead people to believe that the only end to this is divorce. Even that does not work and the innocents begin to suffer for the insecurities and angers of being born to a person that lacks compassion for others and can only see the world as battleground to punish everyone else for the problems he refuses to deal with.

That's what I'm afraid will

That's what I'm afraid will happen to me. So I have put up with it. The stress, though is starting to effect my health.

Just Wondering...

How you say that your husband initially refused to see the children for several years, and then your son ended up with your husband because he just decided that he had to live w/him and his wife at the time? Did you go through a custody battle? I'm just wondering how he ever ended up w/him in the first place? I went through many SERIOUS custody battles that lasted years, and got dragged into the courts, every which way that one could ever possibly think of. I've also had to sell my home once as an ending result because one child custody battle left me using up all my savings. I've shocked many attorneys when I came in to present one specific case. The attorney from the last custody battle I went through, had stated that my case I presented him with, was the most organized screwed up custody case that they've ever seen. Organized, because I basically was my own private investigator, and built my case up to win at whatever legal actions that was thrown at me. It took me 2 years. I have no legal education, but I'm pretty sharp when it comes to getting in ones mind to think what move they'll be making next, and how to build a case to win. Maybe I can help.

So what should I do.

I can so relate to this article because it is what is presently happening to me and I'm ready to leave. I am broke and have children, but the pain, the blaming, telling me I'm too moral that the cyber sex is just to pass the bordem when he should really be working. Today I got to listen that is was all me, that his transgressions are minor and he's better than most husbands...that I'm beating him up. But know matter how or what, if its not what he wants or thinks...I'm beating him up and should just relax. How do you deal with the disrespect and distruction. So he has ADHD...it still hurts and still distructive to me. Am I just suppose to take it because he has ADHD. When do I count? Because all that matters to him is that he can do whatever he wants because he wants to and I'm suppose to relax, tell him he's great and give him sex. I don't want to give sex to someone that treats me that way and thinks cyber sex isn't serious....just recreation. He has ADHD, anxiety, depression and addiction. The doctor has put him on Paxil, and wellbrutin because of his previous addictions....which by the way he is now denying. At first, I thought the medicine was helping. He wasn't picking as many fights and seemed more relaxed. Then I walked in on him at our business with my son and caught him using porn, sex chat, secret private email account. Because he has ADHD, am I'm suppose to take and say OH its the disorder? Please tell me what to do. He is presently up visiting his family. I have a week before he comes home. I don't want him to come back. I'm so glad I found this web site. Now I know I'm not alone.

Have YOU Decided What YOU Want Yet?

Thats the key question. No you don't have to take being disrespected, nor any type or form of abuse. Have you made a firm decision yet on if you want to try to work on your marriage, or you just want out already? If you want to remain, and still love your husband, I suggest you give him ultimatums regarding not just only taking meds, but to seek "specialized help/therapy" for ADHD. That is the key. Taking only meds, will not resolve your problems associated w/ADHD. Personally, I would give him an ultimatum of seperating first, if you're ready to do that. From reading your post, I can't imagine staying in this relationship and continuing to live by his warped perceptions. He needs to comply w/seeking therapy, and possible finding the correct meds he needs. You may have to be the one to research the specific doctors, to save time, energy, and money...and you may also have to see various one before you know which one is helping the best. If he agrees to seek therapy w/you...then in therapy, these serious issues can be brought up and addressed accordingly. By hearing from a specialist that what he is doing is destructive behavior, will validate your concerns, and he will realize that changes need to take place...or else. I always say "prepare yourself" for your exit. Surely problems in your marriage just didn't start to occur. Hasn't it ever crossed your mind that one day you might leave him? I don't really know exactly what your story is in detail, so it's hard to explain exactly what you've done already, and where you're at in your relationship. The time he is away, research for the doctors, and make the appointments. When he returns, give him the ultimatums, and jump into therapy as soon as you can. You should always start to prepare for your exit to set yourself up...just in case he flat out calls your bluff on the seperation, or if he bails out of therapy. If you can get an appointment to see a therapist before he returns, I suggest you go by yourself initially. You can get opinions, and suggestions from them as well.

Prepare, prepare, prepare...be prepared. Words I have learned through my own experiences, and words I will always live by. Especially w/a child, you need security, and unfortunately from my own past experiences, I have learned that you have to depend on yourself to make things happen for your security...spouses can/will let you down. If you just want out...unless there is physical abuse going on...I suggest you buy some time by tolerating your husband, so that you can continue to prepare for your exit.

You say you're broke? Research resouces for free legal aid. Have you talked to your family and friends to support your decisions? Perhaps they can help to financially assist you. You say you have a business? Find out your legal rights in your state pertaining to divorce. I'm not saying to jump the gun...just be prepared.

Lost

I am reading everywhere on this website to try and get some help. I am completely lost in my marriage. This is just another morning when I just want to curl up and cry.

My husband was diagnosed with ADHD a little over a year ago at age 34. It explained a lot at the time and gave both of us hope. Now I just feel stuck. Unhappy.

He's on meds but has not gotten the dose right yet. He's working with his doctor to tweek it. He's not contributing as much as he should and I am trying to be patient. I do get frustrated but I try to help him with advise from his therapist - whom I have met with as well.

My issue is with his communication and listening. He will say things that are really hurtful but then deny saying it or tell me I'm wrong. Then he storms off. He will not appologize or want to hear how I feel. I have spent evenings crying and he will not even notice.

He will also make assumptions or believe I have an *agenda* when I ask him something. He doesn't listen to my words. He thinks he knows what's in my head without actually listeming to what I have to say. And he usually assumes the worst, which can be hurtful that he would actually think that.

He will also not answer questions. He will tell me he will take care of something during the day. In the evening, if I ask him if he did, he will answer something like: "I was busy and I wanted to do it so I tried to free myself but something kept coming up and then the phone rang etc..." Just say no. Simple question.

I feel completely lost. Trying not to cry. Again.

The Good Thing

The good thing is on some level you both seem to know what is going on.

I can tell you this, as someone who only found out a month ago and is still "waiting" on a official diagnosis that processes MUST be put in place that you both agree on. My relationship with my wife who is the non-add one is non-existent right now, because I didn't know or understand what ADHD was and how it truly impacted her and my life. What I can tell you is I'm doing in my professional life to overcome the exact same complaints or issues that my spouse has had. I'm also taking small steps in my personal life to overcome these things, some days I do great and yes some days I "forget."

My assistant makes a list and we've agreed to update it every Monday and Thursday, I review the list initially and if I see something I disagree with her then I respond within 4 hours of getting it. If not then I agree the "list" is what my priorities need to be, in the order they are on the list. Now I don't always do things the way a logical non-ADHD person would but what I can tell you is we have "standards" we have now put in place and I have to be accountable to meet them. Part of it is BECAUSE I WANT TOO! Wherever my personal relationships end up some of these practices will have to be part of it as well.

If he doesn't want to do it and believe he has to do it to make his life better then I don't know if there is anything you can do other then be encouraging.

Somehow you guys have got to get into a conversation that he does not as threatening or complaining, there must be times where you guys can have "heart to heart" discussions where there is no tension. Can you get to that point?

I can't say it will work as we've not gotten there but I have to believe joint counseling or church can help. Both of you have to acknowledge that things may never be the way you "dreamed." That does not mean they can't be very good!

Honestly, breaking this

Honestly, breaking this pattern is the key..it is the ABSOLUTE key to being able to save the marriage. We spent years, off and on, in marriage counseling and looking back I realize that we NEVER even came close to 'getting it'! How scary! Our counselors weren't terrible counselors, it's just that our sessions were 'he said/she said' and he went undiagnosed and the only thing that ever came out of it was me realizing (like a ton of bricks hit me on the head) how angry I truly had become. Even then, I didn't stop being angry..just became more aware of it.

Last summer things spiraled completely out of control with my marriage. For first 6 years we'd gotten along fairly well and rarely ever fought..at least not like we have for the last 6. When we got custody of my step-daughter 6 years ago, it changed everything. We were in over our heads. She was 12 and had been raised in such a way that was in direct contrast to our lives that it just sent everyone's lives on a downhill course. The stress was always overwhelming...even for me..so I cannot imagine what it was like for him. At the same time he got back in contact with some old friends, one had just moved back into town, and he fell into a 'social scene' that was extremely detrimental to our marriage. I now feel he was 'running' from the horrible home life we had, and I can't say I didn't want to do the same. Everything snowballed..we fought over my step-daughter constantly as he was just completely absent as a father to her, wanting to be her friend, and I made the huge mistake of picking up the slack and stepping in and being a parent to her. She resented it, he resented it, and I resented them both. Fast forward to last summer she was 17, spreading her 'independence' wings far worse than ever (I suspect she's either ADD or has borderline personality disorder), his mother was dying, he lost his job (he has always been a fantastic provider), and his mother was dying. We got a job, but it was at a significant pay cut and we were barely making ends meet. He felt like a failure. We finally separated because I asked him to leave. His behavior was horrible by this time. During our separation, his mother died, my father had an ATV accident and died a month later, he had an affair, and we fought worse than we had ever fought before. Of course losing my father was a HUGE reality check for me..I decided right then and there I was going to stop being angry...even if it took me the rest of my life, from that day on I was going to vow to do everything in my power to STOP being so angry...no matter what. He confessed the affair, we agreed to reconcile on the condition that we'd seek professional help (because of the affair), and FINALLY..after all of those years of constant blame games and mind games and just flat out inconsideration and disrespect for each other as human beings, we FINALLY got it. But, look what it took for us to get it. God forbid any of you ever have to suffer so much loss and anguish to 'get it' like we did. Honest to goodness, it was like the sky opened up and all of the sudden the answers were clear as day.

I share this with you because I am now on the 'other side'. My marriage isn't fixed, we haven't even started CBT for his ADD, but the first and most important step is realizing that change TRULY starts within YOU. I would recommend the movie Fireproof, even if you're not religious, the idea behind it is exactly what these marriages need..unconditional love, regardless. Also, the book The Love Dare that goes with the movie was very helpful to me. I had not, in a very long time, loved my husband 'just as he is'....nor had he me. It sounds so simple, but yet it was the hardest thing for me to 'get it'..and it took almost completely losing everything for us to get it. I consider it my Daddy's final gift to me. Now I can only hope that now that we finally see what we were doing, we can get it right this time.

One last thing I'd like to add...our worst problem was the blame game. If I had a penny for every minute we spent saying "I only do this because you do that" or "if you'd just stop this, I would stop that" I would be rich. Truth is, all of my hurtful actions, in response to his hurtful actions, were still hurtful actions and I spent so much time focusing on making him stop his but not one single second on me stopping mine. Never. Not for one minute did I feel I needed to change anything..I was perfectly justified in my behavior because he was hurting me. The truth of the matter is, I chose to be ugly and hurtful..just like he chose to be ugly and hurtful..and who started it became irrelevant after a while. We are still a work in progress, as I said, and I feel blessed that he is willing to get help and admits that he needs help. Truth of the matter is, he'll still do hurtful things and instead of reacting like I used to with anger and tears and resentment I just tell him "that was really hurtful and I wish you would think about why it might be hurtful to me" and I walk away. I say what I have to say, and I don't sit and insist he 'hear' me for 30 minutes. I cannot tell you how much better this works for us. When he says "well, if you hadn't..." I remind him "your hurtful behaviors are your choice, regardless of what I did, you are responsible for you...just because you felt I was being inconsiderate, doesn't give you the right to talk to me that way" (like when I asked him to stay up for 5 extra minutes one evening and let the dogs in so I could jump in the shower...he felt like I was being inconsiderate because he was tired)

Blaming

Sherri, This is the single most helpful post I've read. My situation is in now way comparable to yours in severity so it puts thing in perspective, although I sometimes feel it's unbearable. I have no idea how to stop reacting the way I do, but I understand it needs to happen since it's my choice to be angry and antagonistic all the time. I also realize now that although I do say "you are responsible for you," he won't change and I have to be patient enough to say it every day to him without being resentful. I honestly don't know how to get there but I see it's necessary. I have an appointment with my counselor tomorrow and this will be Topic Numero Uno. Thank you.

dbcarrots

Oh my gosh...that about

Oh my gosh...that about brought me to tears. I am SO grateful that I could be helpful to someone. I want to feel like none of this has been in vain and you have helped that. I wish you all the best with your counselor tomorrow, I hope he/she can help you. Mine helped me identify the anger, but what motivated me to put into action different ways of reacting instead of with anger was finally seeing my husband through God's eyes. I know that analogy won't work for everyone, but it is the truth for me. All of my loss drew me closer to God, the movie Fireproof was a little shove, and the book The Love Dare was another (both given to me by a very good friend), but losing my Daddy and almost my marriage sent me hurtling. One thing too, I thought about after I posted, is that my husband truly has a side to him that is deserving of my unconditional love...I just focused on ONLY the bad for so long that I lost sight of it. I need him to stop hurting me, but I have to love him through it all and not hurt him in response, but love him, show him I love him, and pray that it continues to bring about positive changes in him as well. It is easier to love him 'unconditionally' when he's loving me unconditionally..and even though I still fall flat on my face some days, I know that once the dust settles I have to pick up and be true to ME and what I want to be and not fall victim to the anger anymore. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

positive post

SherriW13,

You are going to make it because you have put a stop to the blame game. You see your interactions as they truly are.

I heard Joe Vitale (a marketer) talk about what he does when he faces someone disagreeable. He thinks and feels, but doesn't say outloud "I love you, I'm sorry, I forgive you and thank you". He just meditates on these words as the other person is venting. He isn't trying to finding words to defend himself or to attack the other person.

I think the peaceful thoughts would show in body language and it would nuetralize the anger. I doubt anyone could resist this attitude for very long. Imagine standing there screaming at someone while they are looking at you and loving you without showing any attitude? You are doing something like this when you state your case and walk away. I think you are on the right track.

brenda

Going medium strong...

SherriW, In response to your request for updates, we are still hanging tough. I was fed up by Labor Day last year and threw in the towel but he did a 180, dedicated himself to counseling and things have much improved. There have been bumps but it's worth it.

dbcarrots

Peace

Thank you for your post. Reading it was like a calming breeze that I so desperately needed.

My wife has ADHD and is currently off her medications. Early in our marriage was unable to cope with her behavior. She had not yet been diagnosed and the patterns you describe were our daily life. I broke down, I did not support her, and had mental health issues of my own. I escaped into sex and had an affair. We are still dealing with the incredible pain that I caused in our relationship.

Although I still have not learned how to cope with her behavior, which includes angry outbursts and rage. I have come to understand and accept that it and not to internalize it myself.

Reading your story helped me feel "not alone" and give me hope.

My ADD Anger

I am a 29-year old male with ADD who lives with my 23-year old non-ADD fiance. We are both graduate students (PhD for me, JD for her) with large and stressful workloads. Recently, we have been dealing with two ADD-related issues: communication and anger.

Communication is our first major issue. She has a daily need to discuss issues that are important to her, and these tend to have a negative valence. I, on the other hand, find it tedious or stressful to listen to these problems every day. It makes me feel like I have to deal with both of our problems rather than just my own; it feels like my stress is being doubled. I would be happy to listen to her problems when something particularly bad has happened, as I love her and want to be there for her. But to listen to problems every day is too much. She doesn't seem to realize that I experience her daily need to talk as a transfer of stress. While her stress levels go down, unfortunately, mine go up.

Yet I can see this from her perspective, sort of. Talking about problems is a normal activity, whereas finding it tedious and stressful is abnormal. After all, I am the person with ADD, and she is the Normal (my term for people without ADD). She views my reaction to her daily 'talk' as a sign that I don't care about her. She thinks that I am placing my needs over hers. Whereas I view her daily talking as something akin to dumping stress on me, she views it as an essential activity which indicates connection and love.

We are, then, in a bind. She thinks I'm being selfish if I don't let her talk to me about her daily problems. I think she's being selfish is she 'dumps' her problems on me every day.

It gets worse. My favorite way to deal with stress is to put my headphones on and watch television for an hour or two. During this time I need to be left alone or, ideally, ignored. She, however, finds this crippling. The idea of an interval during which I am not accessible offends her. So she interrupts me to make comments, ask questions, or address both everyday and serious issues. For me this destroys all of my de-stressing progress. It is like I am trying to build a house of cards but she insists on knocking it down every 15 minutes. Then, when I finish the activity I am uptight and snappy, which she takes as evidence that card-house building - i.e., uninterrupted TV watching - does not relieve as much stress as I think it does.

There is another sense in which communication is not a problem between us. We frequently discuss the nuances of our predicament, and we actively pursue solutions that require creativity and compromise. I just discovered that for the past month she has been walking on eggshells to avoid angering me. Meanwhile I thought that we had made a breakthrough, and that she was finally being sensitive to the particular things that add to my stress load. The problem is that her bottled-up feelings are becoming unbearable for her. I feel terrible about it. Our strategy moving forward is that I will let her talk to me about her problems every day, and in return she will let me watch 1 to 2 hours of uninterrupted TV as needed. It might seem simple. But it took us a long way to get to this point, and we're not even sure if this compromise will work.

The second issue is the way that I deal with anger. I experience small and embarrassing outbursts that scare her. These are more likely to occur when I am coming down from Adderall or when I have not taken it for a day or more.

One particular type of frustration is especially likely. When I lived alone I developed numerous heuristics that allowed me to systematically and unconsciously avoid minor things that I find disproportionately frustrating. As a really mundane example, I hate walking on wet floors, so I dry off while standing in the shower rather than drying off after stepping out of the tub; that way the bathroom floor is never wet.

Obviously, it is perfectly normal to step out of the shower before drying off. But when we moved in together and I started stepping on wet bathroom tiles, it was highly unnerving. It started with shock, then I'd wonder why she couldn't just dry off in a location that is only two feet away, then I'd imagine little particles sticking to my feet, then I'd imagine cleaning the mess and how terrible it would be to clean it every day, etc. - all over the course of about 5 to 10 seconds.

I had to learn that this problem required a new solution now that I was no longer living alone. The solution was manifestly not to try to coerce her to use all of my idiosyncratic heuristics. This would be impossible, in part because she would see no reason to follow my heuristics - e.g., wet tiles don't bother her, so avoiding them would seem utterly unmotivated. Further, it would drive her into madness if she attempted to follow my heuristics.

Rather, the solution was to learn how to look past or overcome my idiosyncratic aversion to wet bathroom tiles. Simply enough, this meant - and I apologize for using such a mundane example - getting into the habit of brushing off my feet before putting on socks and shoes.

But here is the rub: the processes of problem- and solution-discovery are not as logical, cool, or linear as my foregoing descriptions let on. The initial discovery of the problem causes an angry outburst that is small enough to conceal. Its recurrence accumulates hostility, which is aided by a rationalizing monologue the becomes increasingly absurd, causing the outbursts to get bigger.

By the time she sees one of the outbursts it appears to have come out of nowhere, and it seems completely inappropriate given the issue. She is right, of course, but she is also not privy to the series of events that led up to it. The outburst frightens her even though it is not directed at her (and it is never physically violent, thankfully). This makes me simultaneously feel bad about it and recognize that it was absurd, inappropriate, and even immature, all along.

These outbursts are very insidious. They ambush via sneak attack. Living with someone causes thousands of small previously solved problems to re-emerge unsolved. Normals can move past minor inconveniences with relative ease. We ADD folk, on the other hand, get rattled and ultimately knocked off course by them. This disparity between Normals and ADD folks gets amplified when thousands of minor inconveniences emerge. It can feel like a coordinated attempt to destroy hard-fought accomplishments.

It is another species or manifestation of the central struggle that persons with ADD must deal with: the world is governed and designed by Normals, who both write and enforce the rules; and these rules seem like a secret code to persons with ADD. The Normals thus get to determine which behaviors and traits are deemed acceptable, and which ones are prohibited.

In an ADD world, short and angry outbursts would be considered normal; they'd be deemed innocuous and perhaps even efficient. It would be understood that they are neither personally targeted nor of lasting affect. It falls on persons with ADD to adapt to the Normals' rules. This is unfair, but it is ultimately doable. In my experience, the key is for both parties to be as explicit as possible about what is going on when there is a conflict.

I don't think that true understanding between ADD folks and Normals ever really happens. Luckily, there only needs to be just enough understanding to enable a compromise. Lastly, to be effective both parties must view the compromise as fair. This is hard work, but it is worth it.

Not sure if you're still

Not sure if you're still around, but I was wondering how you all are doing now?

I found your explanation of some parts of your ADHD very helpful. I did learn long ago that my husband needs 'unwind' time not only after work, but sometimes in the mornings too. When I used to work and we were both getting ready in the mornings we fought almost every single morning, over stupid stuff. I never understood it, but I do now...he's just not in a 'functioning' mood that early in the day and I have always been a morning person.

Hope things are going well for you. It really sounds as though you are trying hard to make the situation one that makes you both happy. I hope you receive the same in return from her.

Can you explain a little about the 'dumping' thing you feel when she's discussing things with you. Is it stressful when it is stuff about the two of you only or is it just stressful period for her to talk about her day (work, family, etc?).

Reply to SherriW13

It's definitely a lot better. Part of it might have been that I had just begun strength training, which probably increased my testosterone, making me more prone to getting upside. That has subsided. Also, she had just started law school, and now that she's experienced some success on that front the stress is easier to bear for her.

Yeah, I strongly encourage you to give your husband his space if he ever seems easily angered during a particular time of day or activity. My girlfriends have all made the same mistake of thinking that those are times to address my 'problem,' which is completely backwards. The problem is that functioning space, as you put it, is not being respected.

All forms of dumping - i.e., talking to me while I'm trying to pursue other goals like de-stressing or working - are painful and inconsiderate. If you start talking to your husband, and you can see even slightly that he does not want you to be, then please do him a favor and leave him alone. If he never seems up to it, then ask him if you two can talk later. If he is like me, then he might even switch modes and become ready to talk just because his curiosity over what is bugging you has taken hold.

I have often wished that my girlfriends were more willing to schedule the various things that are important to them. Instead, they view this strategy as somehow inorganic and thus unsatisfying. To me, though, their approach ensures that they will have license to drop in unannounced and ruin whatever it is that I was doing or working on.

Of course, though, the important thing is making sure that both parties recognize each other's viewpoint, and respects it about half the time.

Help! My husband also has addiction problems and ADHD.

We both have read your book and found it very insightful. Unfortunately, all he remembers is that I am doing the wrong thing by nagging him. Our situation is more complicated because my husband has an opiate addiction and I have mild Bipolar type 2 disorder. He has orthopedic issues and does have real pain. His addiction began about 6 months after we got married (5yrs ago) and was really severe to the point he was utilizing illegal means to obtain medication and spending lots of our money for 2 years. Since then, there have been good times and bad times. Just when I think things are better, he has a relapse albeit less severe than before. It is difficult to do the exercises you suggest when so much trust has been lost. I realize now that so much off his issues are linked to ADHD behavior. Not only do we suffer from the ADHD parent- child pattern, we also have a huge issue with trust. I feel like I am policing my husband as well as parenting him and I do not like the person I am because I have outbursts that affect the kids. (My step daughter has ADHD as well.) Then he gets angry at me because I don't trust him and he says I am not good to his daughter. I am so trapped in this cycle that I am starting to get so anxious and overwhelmed that I feel extremely tense and hopeless. Even right now I am having trouble keeping my thoughts straight. We have tried marriage counseling and I have a private counselor as well, but we both work long hours and it is really difficult to make appointments. And when we go, he minimizes the issues and turns the tables on me and I just sit there. It is hard enough living with someone with ADHD, but an addict as well is pushing me to the brink. He is so defensive, which is his way of coping with his ADHD, that I can't even try to tell him how his behavior is affecting me. I am so angry that he has ADHD and addiction problems that I can't think rationally. I am so resentful of the situations he has put me in and that I feel like he doesn't take responsibility. I think I have some kind of PTSD because when I think about the awful things I witnessed, that I feel like I am re-living the experience. Every time I go and see my psychiatrist, he just adds another medication or increased or decreases dosages. I was always so compliant and my illness barely affected my life. Now, I am having a harder time being on top of it. I can't just medicate my life away. Is there anything you can recommend to help? I don't want to get a divorce, but I feel like this situation is so toxic and I am mourning the life I wish I had. How can I take care of our house, the finances, the kids, and do my job well, when I have such little support. I feel like I have no one to turn to because I don't have any close friends anymore and I am ashamed to tell my family. Thank you.

Hyper-focus linked to non-communication

I am brand new to this website. I was diagnosed with ADHD a year ago and began treatment with Vyvanse. I have been in counseling for years and given anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, tons of counseling to help with feelings of poor self-esteem, suicidal thoughts, lack of ability to maintain long term relationships. The kicker to all of this is my job is working in a large urban school district as a special education administrator. One of my jobs is to meet with teams to identify students that may have ADHD and set up supports to help them be successful in school. I have a job with a lot of responsibility and I am very successful at it. One of the things at my job that I excel in is conflict resolution (I am brought in to work in situations where parents are threatening to bring suit against a school and I help both sides work it out.) I am also not bad with money no credit card debt, but no savings either. I keep up on chores (I hate clutter). And I absolutely can not in any circumstances hold a conversation with my wife without it degenerating in to a huge fight (this article on civil war hit me hard). She found this site and suggested to me I look into it to see how my ADHD was impacting our relationship. I got my hyper-focus together and read the articles she sent me, then proceeded to read for 4 hours straight, finding things that I felt were relevant to us. I collected several and put them all in a document. I went downstairs, she was napping with our youngest child. Her mother, who lives with us, was taking care of our oldest. I dropped the papers on her computer then left to go work on a bathroom remodel at my parents house. Now I know I didn't let my wife know I was going to leave. I didn't plan on leaving, but everything seemed in order and I was bored so out the door I went without a note or a message (I see how this was a mistake). When I got home 5 hours later, She was in the same position she was in when I left. I ask her if she is okay. She responds yes. I ask if she read the articles and she says yes. I say and...She says and what? I say did they make sense, did you see how they related to us, can you see strategies to help us. Then the fireworks started. "You have been gone all day and now you want to do this?" Now her voice is raising, "You don't ask me how I am or how are the boys. You been out all day doing God knows what, and you want to talk about some blog?" But, hyper-focus is in full gear. I am thinking of course I want to talk about the blogs. Those blogs were so insightful and had so many statements that sounded like they were written about my life, that I can't understand why we would want to talk about anything else. My wife gets louder, I try to stay calm. Eventually my voice rises and now she is telling me, "Don't yell at me!" I know my brain doesn't work like other peoples. I know I have done several things that have damaged our relationship. I just can't understand why, if I communicate, troubleshoot, and mediate highly charged issues for a living, why any time I try to talk to my wife about something serious it ends up with both of us either hurt, angry, or both.

Hyper Focus Linked to non-communication

Hello, excitable boy.

I'm stunned to think your spouse wasn't more receptive talking about your recent revelations. Just meeting in the middle seems to me like a step in the right direction.

In my situation, my husband doesn't read, or write that well...I'm sure if he were one of the students at your school he might be among the group you were troubleshooting with. He got a diagnosis of LD at our local community college (where I happen to work, but didn't when he was tested) in his early 30's. I believe he might also be dyslexic, but he hasn't been tested that I know of. I don't remember when the ADD was diagnosed, probably around the time that our son was (ADHD) and our daughter (ADD.) My husband is NOT ADHD, I have leaps and bounds more energy than he does and I am two years older.

Luckily he's been working for the Federal Gov't. (after a stint in the Navy) for nearly 30 years - so in that respect I suppose I should be very, very grateful.

But, with respect to our communication (or lack thereof) I would be absolutely THRILLED if he would read a blog for four hours and then want to talk about it. I would also be thrilled if he were doing something such as the bathroom remodel you are involved in.

Anyway, I wanted to respond to your post because I appreciate you having expressed yourself. This blog is exactly the support (and outlet) I have needed, even if it is only one-sided (he uses the computer to get his job done, but that's about it.) I feel like I use it to learn and grow, and find resources such as this.

A year ago we went through "Retrouvaille" a lifeline for hurting marriages. It is pre-dominately catholic base but couples from all faiths can participate. Our progress (for improvement) has been extremely slow. In fact a couple of weeks ago I was looking at ads for a room to rent, thinking a time-out was in order. Our children are grown, 19 and 23. I just don't know what to do. I read and try to engage him in conversation but I can't help but feel like it's all me, and that I shouldn't blame the challenges in our relationship on ADD.

I think I "got this"

I think I "got this" excitable boy. The problem was not that she did not want to talk to you about this. In fact, I guarantee had things been a little different she woukd have really appreciated doing so- 5 hours earlier. there is a lot of resentment on both sides, and the big trigger seems to be lack of communication (verry common). Perhaps that afternoon she was really tired taking care of the kids but was trying to give you space to read so you could talk about it. But then you took a lot longer, didnt let her know that was what you were doing (how would she know?!) and then left for FIVE hours without letting her know where you went (how would she know?!!). I hear your accomplishments and your insights and I do applaud them as would your wife. But when you got back, the fact that she was telling you specifically that she was upset you were gone for so long without word should have been axknowledged - consider this a glitch in communication that if not heard and validated could and would add more fuel to the already big resentment there. In turn, you might find her more willing to engage in conversation with you after you say "Im sorry I did not mean to disappear. Im here now, what do you need?". How many times have you ended up arguing over something that had nothing to do with the very thing you guys needed to talk about. And later, you realize that that issue was still on the table, untouched, but with more resentment and baggage layered on top of it. EB, let this change please, by listening to what your wife was saying. She was HURT because you seemingly disappeared for hours no matter how innocent it was that you left. You left her (and her mom) in charge of the kids with no question if you could help? And how would she know where or for how long you would be gone? I know it sounds like criticism but as a total stranger who has/is living this- please understand the devil is always in not recognizing these "glitch moments". To take a moment to hear and validate your partner. Understand that you share a responsibility in your kids and home and NOT leave for unexplained hours. Why is it only HER responsibilty to watch the kids? She needs your validation and once she gets it will be more receptive as well. Yeah, it would be awesome to have this conversation..and I have. :). Take care.

Excitable Boy...

I'm sorry- I just reread your and my posting again, and I still hope you understand the content of my initial post was respectfully given and not meant to be mean-spirited in any way. I want to just say the other tough tough thing that is clear is that despite your great successes and needs for your own acknowledgement- for clearly you are trying in this relationship... The voice of low self esteem and resentment is flying high for you- as much as it is for your wife. Please- for both your sakes... Bring the love and respect back in your relationship. Tell her you love her. Ask the same of her. TALK when it is an ok time for both of you (tough w kids I know) on a DAILy basis. It starts with little steps but if you include each other in this process- it goes a long way. God bless you both.

hard 2 say luv u at this point

I didn't take anything in your post as mean. I really have been trying to get to a point where I can hold any conversation with my wife that doesn't end up at each other's throats. There seems to be nowhere to tread anymore that isn't a minefield. I have been looking at the posts and noticing the complaints of eye rolling, huffing, storming off, etc. and it isn't the ADHD person doing this. I really am at the point that I feel, "How could I be so horrible that I took this person that I love and turned her into this ranting, mean, hurtful person." She has combed this site and sent me links to everything that says it is so hard to live with someone with ADHD. When I responded to her saying I understand I do really dumb things sometimes because I have acted before thinking (mostly pre-diagnosis and vyvanse) and I am working on changing. I got back that isn't good enough. Get a life coach or get a therapist. I asked her what did she see as the outcomes of me getting a therapist, it was so you can learn how to communicate. I asked her about her aggressiveness to me. I also asked if she thought any of my behaviors had anything to do with her lack of understanding of ADHD and her resentment of things that I had done prior to getting diagnosed. She told me if I was so smart and worked with ADHD students so long I should have diagnosed myself a long time ago. She also said that she has read on this site that all ADHD people do is blame others for their behaviors and flip the script when they are in the wrong. I am now at the point that I feel that not only have I hurt her, but, I am so defective that I shouldn't try to be with anyone. I think the only solution is to cut my losses, let her and the boys find a way to be happy without me.

ARGH!!!!! Stop right there!!

ARGH!!!!! Stop right there!! :-)

A) She is right, you cannot do it on your own...I have a husband who tries and tries and tries...and is kind and loving and struggles VERY hard to do 'the right thing' sometimes. There is NO WAY I would be able to continue fighting for our marriage if he insisted he could do this on his own.

B) Do not ask her about her agression towards you, that is simply seen as you pointing the finger. EVEN IF SHE is pointing the finger at your ADHD, it does NOT help for you to point it back at her anger. Own it. You admit and take responsibility for your part in it very clearly in your comments, but you can't go to her and say "I know I have made you this way, I can't change it for you, I hope you want to let go of the anger and I hope you can forgive me, the best I can do is promise to work on myself." ACKNOWLEDGEMENT for what your undiagnosed ADHD has done to her is vital. It is 100% fair of you to expect her to try and meet you half way, but you cannot point out her anger as a way of deflecting blame. Suggest that you BOTH go to counseling because believe you me, you're both going to need it.

C) BOTH partners blame each other, she is wrong there..it isn't just the ADHD partner flipping the blame. She does likely have many reasons to be upset and her anger may be valid, but that does not give her the right to act aggressively towards you. She has a right to be upset, but where she's lost her way is that she (like MANY of us here) ACTS on that anger in an angry way...a negative way. The anger, the negative reactions to the ADHD behaviors are JUST AS DAMAGING TO THE MARRIAGE AS THE UNTREATED ADHD ITSELF. I hope she gets that out of coming to the site.

D) Lose the "I'm defective" attitude...and put on your boots and go to work making things better. Read what she is sending you. Hear what she's saying. Put your hyperfocus to work and take notes. Take your notes and go to a counselor who can help you both.

Communication/miscommunication is a HUGE issue in an ADHD marriage...this is why your wife will have to go to counseling with you. The counselor can sort out what she's misunderstanding and she can help you hear what your wife is saying. I can say "the moon is made of cheese" and my husband somehow hears "you're a loser". Maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but not. It is tough. You both need to be heard. She ABSOLUTELY has to acknowledge the struggles ADHD presents you with everyday. She needs to learn to love you, the man, again...and separate it from your ADHD. You need to learn to control your ADHD behaviors that are hurtful to her. You both need to pick your battles and compromise on the things that aren't worth fighting over.

I agree with lululove (I think it was)....leaving the house without the simple respect of "I'm going to go xxx for a little bit" and maybe even going so far as to invite her...that would NEVER be ok with most women and it obviously isn't OK with her. Don't rationalize it on your head..because the reality is, if it is a problem for her, then it is your problem too. Don't do it. If you're leaving, try and give her an idea of when you'll be home. Ask her if she might need you within the next few hours...make it clear to her, without any room for misunderstanding, that you respect her enough to not walk out without telling her and also that you don't want to leave her alone with the kids if she might need you.

Ok, no "i luv u's" just

Ok, no "i luv u's" just yet... You both have a few steps to go yet. Do you know why I am jumping in w my posts? Because Im so impressed with your willingness to move this forward. But please: No "I'm defective" stuff because if your Adhd was the only defining point of who you were as a person, then all people with Adhd would be the same... The point being YOU are much more than a bunch of letters tattoed to your forehead (a-d-h-d). I have said the same to my husband though I get that that is really hard to hear when you spent a lifetime thinking there was something wrong with you or "different". This is going to be one of your challenges to overcome thus talking to a therapist is a good idea. Your wife has a few steps to go too, if she is willing- and I will say, I (and many people here at this website) have walked in her shoes. I was SOO angry and resentful of my husband for years... But not now. I did a ton of reading, soul searching, crying and shaking my fists to the sky and him until... The dust settled and I realized all said and done, I actually loved the guy. We are talking of decades of this rollercoaster ride yet there you have it. And remarlably, he feels the same.. I dont know if we will make it, honestly- but the thing is- at least now we are playing on a real playing field. We KNOW what issues are going on (his and mine) and now you guys need to reach that place... Or not. Only the two if you can decide that. But, please, get informed fully- read all the books, both of you get counseling separate and together... And try to bring respect and communication back i. ("how are you today?" "can I help w the kids?" what was yOUR day like)... BTw exercise, eat well, get sleep and communicate even more with your wife... It can be a long but loving road ahead- for you, your wife, and your boys.

So frustrated

I started dating my best friend 2 years ago. He didn't know he had this until recently. I don't think it's been diagnosed, rather, he feels it fits. During the first down swing in our relationship, he found me in a compromising situation that wasn't what it looked like. Ever since then he says he can't forget it and move past it (that was at 3 months in). It's felt like a very emotionally abusive relationship. In order to "fix" things, I changed my phone number, blew off every friend I had save 2 mutual friends we had, and avoided doing anything besides sitting at home, waiting for him to want to hang out.

Things would be fantastic. Absolutely magical. And then, like clockwork, 3 weeks later there was always a reason for us to break up. He would then, 2-4 weeks later, stroll back into my life with an apology, an understanding of where things went wrong, and a promise to be better. 3 weeks later, bam-break up. I started to fear having any conversation with him because he was so easy to upset.

I feel like I put so much into making things work with him. I have never loved somebody in a truly unconditional way before. I felt like we could work through anything; nothing was too difficult to overcome because the outcome would be so totally worth it. 2 months ago, we broke up because it just wasn't working. He started dating somebody else immediately and I blocked his phone number. After switching to a new phone company 5 days ago, he has since been able to reach me. I have to be tested for something now. But he's been coming back trying to make efforts to be with me again. I told him I didn't think I could be more because I wasn't up for the rollercoaster.

That's when he told me he thinks he has ADHD and wanted me to look it up. I have learned a lot. And a lot of it does fit. But, how do I trust that with treatment things will really improve? I was so ready to move on until this point and now I'm at a loss for words. I feel so numb and nobody in my life (friends, family, etc) would support my decision to make it work. They're sick of being outcast as well. I wouldn't do any of that to them again; my "lover" would just have to deal with it.

I don't know what to think, how to approach this. I could really use some advice.............

ADHD is no excuse for abuse

Danielleper, You really have to be ready for the answer. This guy's a jerk. Don't wait for any man in this way, let alone blow off family and friends. They are your best litmus test for if someone is worth it or not. If you see a red flag within 3 months of dating someone, then they are not the one. He's a lot of work now and if he truly has ADHD, it will only be more work PLUS the bad way he treats you. I'd run for the hills. He's probably the type who will harrass and try to beat you down till you give in, but hang tough, sign up for match.com and date other people.

dbcarrots

Rethinking Aggression and Defense in ADHD Relationships

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