ADHD and Marriage: Changing What Never Changes

Negotiation and Setting Boundaries

One comment I hear over and over again from non-ADHD spouses is their frustration that "we go through the same problems over and over again. Nothing ever seems to change!" There is a reason for this, as well as a way to interrupt this pattern.

The reason is this: People with ADHD have a "now and not now" approach to time - that is, they live mostly in the present. One reader graphically described his sense of time like "looking through a paper towel roll. Everything I can see through the end of the roll is very clear. Nothing else (past or future) exists." As a rule of thumb, everything they respond to is a response to the total stimulus of that moment. What they often aren't responding to is learnings from the past or anticipation of consequences in the future.

You can think of every interaction you have as a "moment" in time. Each time a person with ADHD comes to that moment (or a very similar one) they will likely respond similarly simply because they are responding to the present stimulus.

For a person who doesn't have ADHD "learning from past mistakes" means making the next similar moment different. In other words you have "moment" plus "memory of learning" the next time you encounter this issue.For the person with ADHD, who has less short-term memory, and isn't wired to anticipate future consequences, the natural response to similar "moments" is pretty much the same response as last time around. The memory of past mistakes sometimes makes an impact but often doesn't. So his or her first "moment" translates the next time around to "moment plus nothing new".

So what do you do? People with ADHD trying to get out of repetitive "moments" or exchanges need to physically (rather than mentally) alter them next time that similar moment happens. That way, they are faced with a new moment the next time the situation in question comes up. There are a number of ways of altering future moments so that they stay altered:

Start taking medications. This alters the brain function, often allowing for better focus or other changes. ("moment" + "better functioning brain" = different response)
Put a reminder system in place. For issues related to time (being late due to distraction, etc) beepers can work wonders. ("moment" + timer = reminder to act differently or sooner). Other reminder systems include key racks, bins for locating or storing items that frequently get misplaced, organizational systems, etc.
Change your ideas about appropriate interactions. Setting up "cues" with your partner is a good example. If the ADHD partner doesn't see when others are bored with his conversation, a cue from a partner can alert him to the need to move on - as long as the cue is agreed to in advance. ("moment" + previously agreed-to cue from partner = less social awkwardness)
Stepping away from angry interactions. Vow that the next time your partner blows up you won't engage in any way that isn't constructive. Keep your voice even, and insist on talking about content rather than style ("moment" + constructive response = no escalation of anger, potential for constructive negotiation)
Change who does what. If you argue over the speed at which the ADHD spouse drives, have the non-ADHD spouse drive instead. ("moment" + new driver = new outcome)

These are but a few examples. The underlying concept is this:

People with ADHD live in the present. The best way to change "moments" that don't work for you as a couple is to put into place physical changes that will make that next similar moment different (and better)!

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Isn't this one more way we have to give in

If you argue over the speed at which the ADHD spouse drives, have the non-ADHD spouse drive instead.

Once again, Melissa, you are proposing that we take on something else to accomodate the ADD spouse. I love it when he drives. I can work on my cross-stitch.

But I should do all the driving because he doesn't want to do it right?! Why can't he learn to drive legally and safely instead?

Sorry to be so negative. Driving is getting to be a sore point for me right now. He always wants me to drive. I'm tired too.

Driving

Having you drive is the easy solution - and much easier to put in a bullet point than the explanation that follows (I was trying to make a point, not dictate your particular solution to your driving conflict). You don't have to drive, but if you choose not to, then your abdication of that responsibility suggests that you may not want to complain while in the car (too distracting). Yes, you're tired of having to take over. However, unlike arguments over household chores, driving is an issue of your personal safety and therefore taking over could be more important. Unfortunately, all too often, the argument over driving is not really an argument over driving, it's an argument over control. As in "why should I have to do everything just the way you want me to? I'll drive the way I drive, thank you!" Few spouses are really interested in endangering their families. But MANY spouses are interested in being their own individuals, which is why driving becomes such a sore spot in so many households with ADHD conflicts. There are few places in the world where the person "in the driver's seat" is so thoroughly in control as in a car...and where the person NOT in control is so obviously vulnerable to not being in control...which is why, I'm convinced, so many arguments happen around driving. You can't get disgusted and walk away from the driver's control of you when you're going 70 down the highway (or 85!). In our household, therefore, we moved the conversation away from control and back to safety and agreed to some driving "rules". Note, the best time to have this conversation is NOT when you are in the middle of a road trip. You want to have this conversation when both parties are calmly able to discuss (and when neither is obviously "in the driver's seat"). Our rules follow: 1.) When others are in the car, neither person drives over 75. When others aren't in the car you can drive as fast as you want. 2.) No tailgating because it makes the passenger too uncomfortable and increases the chances of an accident 3.) Hands free cell phone use only. No texting. When possible, passenger makes calls. 4.) In return, refrain from commenting on the other person's driving These rules apply to us both. Notice we only set rules around the biggest issues. While I hate how he changes lanes, how he approaches toll booths, and the fact that he uses a mapping program even when he doesn't need one (which is distracting), there are no rules about that. There are also no rules around how fast I pull out into intersections (which he hates). Marriage isn't about one person dictating how the other does everything. Our solution is only about staying reasonably safe. Ask your husband why he always wants you to drive. If he answers that he's tired of having you complain about his driving then perhaps a solution like ours will work for you. (Note that it only works if both people stick to the rules. That means no complaining about his driving if he stays reasonably within the rules.) If he answers that he feels he's too distracted to drive safely then consider talking with him about improving his ADD treatment and applaud his self-awareness (and take over the driving until the problem is solved so everyone stays safe). If he's just tired, then consider moving back into a mode where you split the driving evenly (fair's fair) and both abide by a reasonable set of rules you establish in advance for the safety of you both. In my opinion, this approach doesn't just "accomodate" an ADD spouse. It deals with the reality of being two different individuals both of whom have some pretty important needs that must be negotiated. To the point in my original post - people with ADHD live in the present. If you don't change the physical reality of that present moment (and get rid of the underlying argument over control) in your next driving interaction, you will always have "driving be a sore point for me right now".

"Not in the moment" events

What do you suggest about handling more long-term events? For instance, birthdays. ADHD spouse thinks birthdays are events to be celebrated big-time---which works when they are his, because someone else is doing the work towards the celebration (usually me). I usually handle others, too, including getting his parents cards and gifts, making sure he calls them, etc.

Mine is coming up. Oops, he forgot he has a meeting that night that he can't get out of. Oops, he forgot to take the kids out and get cards. Oops, we'll have to celebrate my birthday another day because he's not prepared. Where would I like to go? Why don't I go ahead and make the plans?

Yeah, I get the "in the moment" part and that he has difficulty planning ahead. Doesn't make it feel any better when my day comes and goes with little more than a pat on the head and an, "oh, it's your birthday, isn't it?" What's more, it's training my non-adhd sons that this is the way things are handled in the world. I can't complain about it without sounding like a whining shrew.

This year, I've posted signs around the house that I would like to get one card from somebody in the family on my birthday--- but even that technique makes me want to cry with disappointment that I have to do that.

Any suggestions? Other than figure out a way to manage my expectations, accommodate him, and try not to feel like I'm totally unimportant except for what I can do for him? (yeah, there was the whining shrew...)

Just addressed my take on this in another thread

Boy, but can I sympathize with you. I understand the pain of this sort of thing, and the real sucker punch it does to your self-esteem.

http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/add-and-selfishness#comment-5234

I'm right there with you

I'm right there with you guys!!!!! It sucks.

Don't handle the birthdays

You don't have to handle his birthday commitments for him, and don't let him guilt you into doing it. If he wants to send a card or gift to his mother, fine. If not, fine. If she has a problem with this, she can talk to him directly about it.

As for his birthday - if you have the desire to throw him a big party, then do so. If you don't, then explain to him that this year you don't have the money/time/energy/desire to throw a big party. If he feels disappointed at that, sit him down and talk about your feelings about how the party throwing has been going in general. You may find that he plans his own celebration (a night at the bar, or whatever.)

As for your birthday next year - have him mark in his electronic calendar NOW a big 'X' that reserves whatever time of day you want him to reserve for you so that when that conflict comes up he can tell them he's already busy. For this year, I would handle it by saying that celebrating your birthday within a week or two is fine, but that you won't plan it - that's his job. Then, confirm a date RIGHT THEN for the celebration so that he has a deadline and can refuse other conflicts that come up.

Your sons - insist that your husband participate in the planning and execution of their parties, if you throw them. That way you and he both are modeling that special dates are important. (As you point out, you don't want to model that they are only important to the mother of the family).

Family or couple meetings may help you iron some of this out. You deserve to have a way to express your frustration, as well as set some specific dates and reminders between the two of you, so that you aren't considered a "whining shrew". Usually, a set structure can help because then it isolates the times of the whining and frees up other times of the week for more positive interactions.

I read a comment...

someone with ADD left on my blog. I was talking about learning to work around ADD symptoms. He mentioned that he sets his MS Outlook to remind him every day for the week (or maybe it was two) leading up to a person's birthday. He said it's the only way he remembers to get his act together.

I think that if your husband wants to make a fuss, he needs to make it a priority to figure something out. Unfortunately, that means you will probably have to work with him to brainstorm an idea and then figure out how to make it work. Something like notes in his PDA or online calendar or whatever. That way, if he goes to schedule something, he'll see that he can't because there's already something on that night. It will also remind him to get working on the actual festitivies.

From what I understand ADDers have a much easier time with projects if they break it up into small pieces. So, if he wants to throw you a big bash, he should set up some reminder for himself for a few days straight to brainstorm ideas for your party. Then, he should break each thing up into small components: Call your relatives one day, call your friends the next, call the restaurant to book the reservation on the third day, etc. Until the whole thing is done. If he only has to tackle one item at a time, he will be less likely to get overwhelmed. And if you're worried about him coming up with practical ideas, you could always ask a good friend to help him out with brainstorming and then help him figure out which tasks to do and in which order. Just be clear that she should not take on the whole thing herself, but rather should help him create a workable plan that he can realistically do.

I understand...

This is exactly how birthdays go in my house. To be fair, he doesn't expect much for his birthday, but I go out of my way anyway to make sure its a special day for him. I do the same for the 3 children and my mom (who lives with us). Last year, my birthday fell 11 days after our wedding. He forgot. His forgetting caused my kids to not do anything either. My mom was suffering from cancer and forgot as well. I was left feeling very depressed about the issue. Like you said, if you say anything, you feel like you are whining. If you go out of your way to spell out what he needs to do, it takes the pleasure out of it. I got very upset last year and explained how it made me feel.

My birthday was a week ago today. I was prepared for it to pass unrecognized again. He assured me that he wasn't going to forget. He has it on his calendar on his smartphone, Facebook reminded him, and I mentioned it. The night before my birthday, my oldest son remembered and made my husband take him and his brother to the store to buy me a card. The next morning, my husband said "Happy Birthday, I'm going to work early". I lost it. I accused him of forgetting and being insensitive. He said that he did not forget, he just hadn't done anything yet. I asked him when he planned to. He said, I was gonna go get you a card after work. WHAT?!

I, once again, explained that birthdays are important to me, and that his ignoring of that hurts me deeply. He got angry at me and said that he "can't do anything right for "me. So, basically, he made me the bad guy for being offended. Ugh...

Several hours later he finally agreed to speak to me again via IM from work. He apologized. We made it through the day and I was so relieved when it was finally over. It is so sad to me that my special days will never be special again. What I have to look forward to is pain every year instead. Either that or I can numb myself to them. Either way, its a loss.

Birthdays

I realize this is not an ideal solution for everyone, but my approach to birthdays (since I was fairly young, as mine falls around the holidays and people tend to be busy) is to remind people weekly for several weeks beforehand, and daily the last few days. I remind my guy to get me a present/presents in time (and sometimes give him a list of what I would like, or at least ideas) and I plan my birthday celebration the way I want it to be (open house, lots of friends and family stop by). Although part of me would love a surprise party or something I didn't have to think of, I'm basically fine with planning it myself - at least that way the day is full of fun and exactly the way I like it, instead of full of disappointment.

Just a thought.

This has been part of our

This has been part of our lives too. For many, many years my husband made a huge deal out of his own birthday, and for the entire month leading up to it, he would be like a little kid, telling us that HIS birthday was coming up. I didn't mind it so much, except he would never talk about my birthday in the same way, and wouldn't even be part of the celebration for myself or our daughters. It didn't stop at birthdays. Any celebration at all, where he wasn't the center of attention didn't warrant his time. It was hurtful to the girls and me, and eventually I dreaded holidays and even stopped celebrating because there wasn't much joy in them. It really feels like we didn't matter to him all those years. Now, that he wants it different, it's hard to forget over 25 years of hurt (that he says he doesn't remember) and pretend everything is ok.

We deal with this in our

We deal with this in our household, too. I want my 3 sons to understand how you are supposed to treat a woman. I want them to buy me/make me a gift for Valentine's Day, Christmas, Birthday, so they will know that this is how you treat the woman you are with. But how do you do that, when your husband doesn't do it? After years of fighting about nothing on Mother's Day, we just quit celebrating both Mother's Day and Father's Day. Period. I do nothing. I will have the boys make him a card, but that's it. Also, birthdays. You see, mine is in May, near Memorial Day, when we usually take a vacation that I planned/paid for/packed for, etc. My husband always said, well, the vacation is your birthday present. ?? For the boys birthdays there is always a party. Always. And I always plan for it myself. Always. I buy their presents, I know what they want, I organize the grandparents, etc. I've asked for help, but it doesn't work out. For instance, we were in a hurry and needed to stop at a store to find some clothes for my oldest son's birthday. I took my husband. While in the store, I'm scuttling about looking for clothes FOR MY SON. My husband, on the otherhand, is looking for clothes for himself. And asking me if I think this would look good, should he start wearing a crazy new hat, what about this. I almost lost it. And Christmas is a nightmare. One year, he wanted to handle the stockings. I told him no, no way, no how. Oh, he would really do a good job, he swears. I told him fine, he could do his and my stockings, but not the boys. Usually, I put underwear/socks/candy/one toy and a gadget in there. Nothing major, but it fills it up and feels big. I bought nothing for the two of us and filled the boys, thinking, okay, he's going to do it. Christmas morning I came down and my boys look devastated. I'm like, what's wrong?? They told me I didn't get anything in my stocking. I'm like, what?? I go look. Way down deep in the bottom was a 4 inch ice scraper. Seriously. That's it. of course, I had to act all excited, and oh boy this is I what I needed, now let's go open presents, but I swear, I was trashed on the inside. So devastated. An ice scraper. This is what you think of your wife? From that moment on, there's been no more Christmas. I buy myself stuff, wrap it up and say it's from him. i do this to teach my boys to be considerate to their spouses. What else do I do? Can you believe my son actually said to me once, Dad always gets you the best presents? Hah!

It's really hard to never get a present from your spouse. Not one. I can't remember the last time he bought me anything. I just give up.

Choose your battles

I think it is just choosing your battles. It seems to be common sense that if your spouse drives too dangerously and endangers lives, maybe you should be the one to take the wheel. But either way it is still a choice you make. If you choose to let your spouse drive, but then are yelling at him the whole time or almost having a heart attack, you are just making things harder and more stressful on yourself. It might just be easier to drive yourself in that case, but it is up to you. Really all of the things you take on in your marriage are by choice. You might seem like the likely candidate for some of those things, but in my experience, if you take on too much burden, you are going to collapse under the weight. You have to choose what you take on and what you let roll off. Some choices are extremely important and others, not so much.

Reply to Melissa about Driving

My husband thinks I drive well. I think he drives well, when I'm in the car. We have a long history of him driving-while we were dating and for another year of our marriage, he only had a stick-shift car and I can't drive them (I haven't full use of my left leg). So I know he can drive and while we were dating, he drove fine. I never say anything about his driving (his sense of direction is another matter....)

But now he drives to visit clients at work and always wants me to do our personal driving. I'm tired too. It feels like he's trying to control me. "You have to perform the duties of a servant while I am the served." Like he's lording it over me, like my work and my phyisical limitations mean nothing, like he's the most important person in the relationship and I'm just there to serve his needs.

I've posted about the troubles he had with a police officer who didn't like the way he was driving and gave him a (totally unjustified) DWI. Now I have to give him a small settlement I got for an accident I had to pay for his lawyer, etc. I know the DWI charge was not his fault, but the money I have to pay his lawyer could have paid for medical care for me, or tickets to a major national sporting event that I'm desperate to see, that will be in our city in 2011. I am furious that he wouldn't drive right (when I know he can), and now it is going to cost me, and I wasn't even there. It won't cost him anything. Just one more way the non-ADD spouse is punished for marrying the ADD guy.

He has indicated he "can't" pay for a lawyer (really, it would be difficult) because they cut his salary at work and he's "too tired" to work a second job like I do. But why does everything fall on me? Why do I have to fix this?

One could extend the logic in your original post. If you fight because he won't work, you work or get a second job if you already have ONE. If you fight because the kitchen looks like a tornado hit it after he cooks, you can cook. Giving him whatever he wants will prevent fighting, but is it the right solution for the other spouse?

value yourself

SueAnn,

Your post sounds like one I could have written 5 years ago. I'm not there anymore, and I just want to share how I am no longer living like this. I was a classic enabler and felt like I had to fix everything. Then afterwards, I would see myself as a martyr. My counselor told me that we had a pattern. Your husband misbehaves, you get mad and rant, he knows if he holds out you will cave and things are back to where he wants them. He will let you take care of his problem.

I learned that I didn't value myself, my needs, or my wants. You said "Why do I have to fix this?" This is the kind of thing I would tell myself, but what I learned is that I DO NOT have to fix the consequences of his misbehavior. I began to let the natural consequences fall and I began to put myself first. Just act and you don't have to say a word. Get your financial affairs separate and let him answer for his behavior. If you don't take care of yourself, no one else will. What really helped me was to take a lot of time thinking about what I valued and how I had compromised my values to the point that I was chronically depressed and feeling as though I was helpless. I would suggest that you Google a list of values and just read through them, noting the ones that jump out at you.

When I read my list I knew immediately the ones that spoke to my heart, and I reclaimed them. I said I would start making all my decisions line up with these values. No more emotional outbursts, no more emotional decisions to fix someone else's misbehavior. No more enabling. I learned that I am not helpless, but I had to start making different choices. I had to learn to shut my mouth when he'd misbehave and expect me to fix it. I suddenly knew that I was respecting what I valued the most, and I truly loved when I allowed another person to experience reality. I will warn you that it tooks me months of consistency to change the enabling behavior I had allowed to rule me for years. I would also suggest that you get a buddy who understands and will honestly tell you when you are slipping into the old pattern.

Brenda

I agree with what you are saying

I agree with you but the consequences TO ME would be disasterous. He would lose his job if convicted, and his career, and I would be left without insurance, as my job does not offer it. So my life depends on him keeping his job, and so I have to pay for his lawyer. He won't even consider a second job to pay for it himself.

Sueann, you hit the nail on

Sueann, you hit the nail on the head. If you are tied up in the outcome of your partner's actions, then you really have no choice but to help them. It's hard to just "let things go" when doing so affects you, especially financially. I am currently collecting unemployment after having been laid off, and my fiancee has clients who she has to prep for before she meets with, and then has to drive to their homes to meet with them and be ON TIME. So not only do I have to ensure she's prepping beforehand, but I also have to make sure she's getting there in time. And then, I have to make sure she logs how many hours she's worked into her company's website. I've spoken with her about how I do not want to be in a parent-child dynamic where I have to keep tabs on her, and how I just want to keep my mouth shut about when she begins to prep for a client, but I simply cannot do that. I know the obvious solution is for me to get a job so we're more financially stable, but it still doesn't help the fact that she needs to still hold down a job for complete stability.

And today I had to run to my in-laws to get her blackberry which she uses as her reminding device because she left it there. So not only was I reminding her of prepping, but I had to drive roughly 1 hour to get her phone and drop it off to her at her client's house. It certainly becomes frustrating, and I know there are many explanations for why this continues to happen, but I often ask - can I be strong enough to endure? Can we thrive in our relationship? For either of us to just think we're surviving is not a place I want either of us to be in, and each time these scenarios play out I feel we both question how strong we are. It makes me cry just thinking about it because I know none of this is her intention, and I know my frustration is with the symptoms and not her, but we always seem to find ourselves exasperated.

helping fiance

This is not a good pattern you are setting up! Are you going to be the babysitter for the rest of your life? This woman needs to figure out how to act professionally and do the proper prep and get there herself without a babysitter (or, more accurately, without a romantic partner as babysitter. If she finds out that having a crackerjack assistant works for her - great! But YOU CANNOT take on this role and expect your relationship to survive!!!) It is not romantic to be someone's slave. Nor is it romantic for your partner to have you all over her all the time "keeping tabs on her". Your behavior, when you say "I just want to keep my mouth shut about when she begins to prep for a client, but I simply cannot do that..." sends her a very specific message "YOU AREN'T COMPETENT ENOUGH TO DO THIS JOB!" If you genuinely feel that way, then the best thing you can do is go get a job yourself because she's not going to be stable, no matter what you do (she does have times when you're not around...)

I say that last with tongue in cheek. Unless she is completely new to the industry in which she works, she got to where she is without your "assistance". Which means that she has basic competency. But your behavior is actually keeping her from becoming more competent. She needs to figure out what her coping strategies are going to be - and you are taking away her opportunity to figure that out by compensating for her. Don't kid yourself. You didn't have to drive an hour to get her phone and then drop it off at her client's house. She could have done that at the end of her day. (Put another way - what would have happened if she had dropped it and a truck had run over it? Would she have been fired? No, she would have made due until she could replace it.)

Does she not resent this behavior?

Please - have some deep discussions about this behavior and how it's affecting you both...and start your own job search ASAP! You need something else upon which to focus.

Amen!

Couldn't have said it better myself, Melissa! I'm a complete enabler, too. I do too much and then I get resentful that I took over so much. So not only am I infantalizing my husband, I'm also then angry at him. Yeesh.

It's a tough line to tow, for sure. My new goal is to find ways around the ADD symptoms that don't mean I'm perenially picking up the slack. For example: Tim forgets things, so we get him devices that allow him to set alarms. (If that guy's fiancee loses things easily, as does my husband, she should consider, sad though it sounds, having a back-up cell phone. At least one with the same set of alarms and such.)

We only just discovered that a lot of Tim's problems come from not knowing where to start on things. So I've agreed to help him draw up a list and figure out where to get started, when it comes to chores or errands or whatever. For now, that does, I suppose, mean more work for me. But it allows Tim to then go and physically out in a way that is helpful and useful. Eventually, the patterns get ingrained in him -- or, if that doesn't happen, he can store the lists in the same device that has the alarms. Then he can reference that instead of asking me.

We're trying to find a way to help both of us get around his ADD traits in a way that doesn't make him feel incompetent/wrong but also doesn't end up in me doing everything myself. Because no good comes of that, as I've proven time and time again.

When you feel like you have to do things for your ADD partner, perhaps you need to do what I'm only now learning: Stop and ask what is keeping your partner from doing this task by herself. A lot of times, the problem turns out to be something with a very easy solution. If she can't get off to see her clients on time, have her set earlier alarms to give herself fair warning. If she still is late, then she'll either figure something out or she's in the wrong business. I am a little surprised to find out that she is in the kind of work that clearly requires more organization that she seems to be exhibiting. She may be in over her head, or she's just gotten used to you helping her.

"have to"

So what would happen to this man if he weren't married to you? How would he pay for that lawyer? My logic isn't that the non-ADHD spouse should take on everything. And I certainly don't feel as if the non-ADHD spouse should stifle herself (or himself) in order to survive. You have a life, too!

Quite frankly, if he's a competent driver then it's only fair to split the driving. He has to drive to work, too? Too bad! You have to work two jobs. Or, perhaps he doesn't think that makes you too tired to drive?

Stand up for yourself when it's important - and look underneath for reasons why things are happening in your relationship. You say you feel as if he's trying to control you - trust your gut, maybe he is. Or, maybe he figures that you'll go along with it (even if you complain) so therefore it's "fine".

I am trying to say - CHANGE the next interaction. In your case, perhaps that change means that you refuse to drive and explain to him why you won't?

"Have to" reply

If he wasn't married to me, it would not matter to me. He could lose his job and I might feel bad but it wouldn't be life threatening to me. That's why I feel like I "have to" help. Until they change medical care in this country so that your health care doesn't depend on your job or your spouse's, I have to help him keep his job. And he knows it, so he's not going to go out of his way to fix it.

I've been driving lately because his dizzyness and lightheadedness has gotten worse. We haven't gotten an answer yet. I find myself pulled between wanting it to be the medicine because we could fix the problem by taking him off meds, and wanting it to be something else so he can keep taking his meds. (But all the alternatives are worse.)

He did drive one way of our Thanksgiving trip. He drove there (in daylight) so I could cross-stitch. I drove home (in the dark) and we talked. If I am passenger in the dark I always fall asleep and he hates that because he feels like he's alone. He would have told me if he had a problem. It did feel fair to me.

Hmmm...

If this is such a chronic problem, you may need to consider changing your life so that it's not so dependent on him. My guess is that you love him, but all I see here is that you "have" to stay with him for reasons of health care. If you have other options, you can take a look at the situation in a way that is more fair to your feelings. Then, if you still want to stay, you can work on things. If not, you won't be forced to stick around out of neccessity.

Before you jump all over me about the health care thing, I am well aware of the problems in this country. My husband got laid off and didn't qualify for individual plans. Luckily, our state had a high-risk insurance pool, but it was $500 a month. Between that and our rent, 40% of our income was gone in the first three days of the month. And Medicaid has ridiculously low income limits. But, depending on where you live, there is probably some way for you to go. Of course, there is the chance that you have, truly, exhausted every avenue. But are you stuck in your job for a reason? I know now isn't the best time to look for new work, but shouldn't it be a priority to find something with benefits? If you are working contract, you can often get an individual plan.

How about the income change that would occur if your husband DID lose his job? Things would be upsetting and financially constricted, but it's possible you'd qualify for Medicaid. And if none of that works, see if your state or county offers sliding scale programs. Those offices usually have pharmacies as well, in case the prescriptions are what you need covered. If you ever want help searching, I'm a bit of an old hand at finding programs. So you can email me (seattlegirluw at yahoo) with the particulars and I'll see what i can do to help.

I guess i'm just saying that I'm really good at assuming I'm out of options. And I almost always prove myself wrong with a little bit of research. But you're so worn down, you may not have the energy to go looking. Maybe you can inquire at the department of health and human services about potential programs -- gov't and non-profit.

Healthcare

In the state I live in, only children and disabled people can get Medicaid. (I've got a lot of physical challenges but I'm not disabled.) My husband got assistance for his depression from the county mental health agency but they don't treat adult ADD. (I had to pay for those high-priced meds out of my own pocket, in order to get him to even consider going back to work.)

The industry I've worked in for 33 years never pays any benefits. The jobs are considered part-time no matter how many hours you work. I am trying to get a different job, I'm in school and part-time it will take me another year and a half. I found out last week that I can get insurance through my school, but you have to pay for the semester all at once, before the financial aid comes in, so I'm not sure that's going to be possible next semester.

One problem is that I feel like I'm using my husband to support me while I finish school. It really isn't possible to work 2 shifts every day, like I was doing to support him, and go to school. Just working one shift, I can't pay the rent, etc. so I do need him to work too. If this bogus charge sticks, he won't be able to work in his field at all. I just want him to be as concerned about it as I am, and do something about it.

To Melissa regarding driving.

Dear Melissa,

I now understand why my husband kept having accident after accident after accident. Never learning from past mistakes. He totaled our car from his tail gating and texting while driving. Unfortunately, I had fallen asleep in the car on the way home from Cape Cod. Once I was asleep and not watching him, he began texting and driving in the car and we ended up in a 3 car pile up on 93 north. My nose was broken, my foot was broken, I was on crutches for 3 months. At the time of the accident he checked on the other drivers before he checked to see if I was OK. He first frantically hid all his devises from view and hid them in the glove box. Then he ran and checked on the other drivers. He never check on me. I will never forget that moment. I now understand why he showed no remorse. Why he lied about the fact he was texting and driving at the time of the accident. He continued these reckless behaviors and has had 2 or 3 more accidents since. 2 in his new company car. I did set boundaries. I said you can do what you want when I am not in the car. When I am in the car both hands on the wheel no devises. He would start with the devised in the cup holder of the car. Then he would put them in his lap. Then he would start doing it at red lights. I could yell, I could scream, but I didn't. I just sat there totally bewildered. Given what had happened. I would remind him about the accident, about being on crutches for 3 months. It did not matter. I tried driving. He yells at you and tells you how to drive. He just would not shut up. Sometimes he would just refuse to let me drive and when I insisted he would refuse to go. IE then we are not going to my grandparents house for the weekend if I can't drive. Sometimes he would let me. The terror I felt when he was driving was terrible following the accident. I put post it notes on his dash. Don't tailgate. Don't text and drive. He would remove them. He is on the road with his job in a company car. When he got it I sat him down and said look. You have a really bad driving record and your company does not know about it. If you have an accident in a company car it will draw attention and could hurt you at your job. You need to be really careful. Think about putting visual cues on the dash. You don't want to loose the company car. You don't want people in the company to become aware of your driving record. You don't want to loose your license, how would you do your job? He had 2 car accidents in the first 4 weeks of having a brand new Ford escape company car. Now I get it. He will continue to make the same mistake over and over and there was absolutely nothing I could have done to stop him. Your books are nice, but many of the techniques did not work and do not work with severe ADHD that is untreated. For the first time in 10 years he is in treatment and appears to be taking his meds. This was following a hospitalization. Then I discovered the affair and threw him out. The statistics for this disorder are bleak for those diagnosed as adults and if they have other disorders with the ADHD. In my husband's case he has OCD and depression. He also has a childhood history of abuse and neglect. So at times your books over simplify. You also minimize the toll the disorder takes on the non ADHD spouse. I never yelled. I used your techniques. I stuffed all my anger, frustration and disappointment forcing myself to remain calm. I did not yell at him after the accident. Remaining calm when presented with such adversity takes a big toll on a person. I am not Jesus. I can't walk on water. Example: Child diagnosed, gets state of the art care at the Hallowell center. Stable home. Healthy Family. He is taught all these skills as he is developing. The adult who is diagnosed is truly behind the 8 ball. They have been doing the destructive coping behaviors, unmedicated for years and years. Trying behavior modification in these people does not get results. Even under the best of circumstances. My husband is at the Hallowell center with state of the art care. So I agree, personal safety needs more attention. Like a complete fool, I continued to let him drive, because giving in and putting my safety at risk caused less controversy.

Driving.

Ok, my husband who is ADHD doesnt seem to think that the way he drives is unsafe. So, I started driving everywhere.. Until he started dictating and trying to control my driving to the way he likes to drive, "It's perfectly legal to drive through a yellow light, why did you have to stop??". To the point where he gets extremely agitated and it turns into, "You will do the opposite of everything I say!" Really, I just am a safe driver with no driving record and YES, I do want to be an individual when I drive. Now, I will only drive us to quick destination areas, no highways or long trips. We will take separate cars for these. Ridiculous? Yes, but, I can't think of anything else. And I have a new question, that has nothing to do with driving. I stopped cooking because he won't eat leftovers and it sits and gets wasted. I am afraid to give him any kind of birthday or greeting card, as he got offended and berated me and didnt talk to me for 2 days over one. He won't let me at least help with the finances because his ex wife hoarded money behind his back (Gee, I wonder why she did that?) and he's afraid I'll do it (which I have well proven I won't). I am not allowed to bring up anything he does that hurts my feelings, or frustrates me because I have to back track and clean up or fix an ADHD mess. I can't talk to him without him turning it all into himself....sigh... I've tried nagging, which I hate, so I won't do it.. I talk to him like I am a professional therapist, with as little emotion as possible. I have become obsessed with ADHD and finding creative ways and strategies to work around it, but it always seems like my efforts are all one sided. Does being married to ADHD mean that I will always be the bad guy, always be the one who "does the right thing" and always mean that I will be the one who makes accommodations, while my basic relationship needs are not met? Is this normal? In other words, do I just need to suck it up and deal with it if I want to stay married to this man, who, believe it or not can also be the most amazing human being on the planet (I'm obviously sticking around for a reason :-). What do I do? We've both gone to therapy, but his ADHD therapist won't see him until he starts meds. I'm still going to mine, to help cope with ADHD and I have PTSD (So does he). I just feel so lonely and tired and like I have no purpose, since it seems like anything I do or want to do gets quashed by ADHD. Sigh.....Please help me, anybody?!?

Changing what Never Changes

Melissa, I have done all of your suggestions. He is still living in happy bliss and I am living in agonizing frustration. He just doesnt understand why I am so miserable and why I can't just be happy. He says I am the one who needs therapy. I am the one who is seeing a phycatrist and he says that proves his point.

This sounds familiar

I am dealing with the same thing with my husband. You are not alone. The amount of blindness, projection of blame, and outright denial by some ADD sufferers is just amazing to me. I feel almost--well, envious sometimes. I wouldn't want to have ADD, but in my weaker moments, when the pain of what I'm dealing with in my marriage and what I've lost (not to mention what *we've* lost as a couple) feels like more than I can bear, I wish I could be that oblivious to and emotionally cut-off from what's going on around me!

(OK, not really--but you get my point!)

Ticket to his world

I totally get your point. I call it "a ticket to his world".

I told him we were going to switch rolls one day. I told him he had to make all the plans, decisions and direct our day. But he had to make sure we accomplish A B and C. I told him, I have a "ticket to your world" today. He thought this was a fabulous idea when I first introduced it. He was excited to have the "control." It did not last, but a few hours.

He said he did not like "my world". It had too many restrictions and deadlines. He went back to "his world" and I was forced back into mine. I do prefer mine, I believe it is much calmer than his. But I totally get your point.

I wish I had thought of this!

What a brilliant idea. I wish I had thought to do this. I don't know if he would have gotten any further with it than your husband did, but it would have been worth a shot. One never knows, and hope springs eternal.

reply to BreadBaker and Again and Again

I'm right there with you guys. I do prefer my world better but some days I would love to switch rolls and be able to accomplish absolutely nothing and not have a care in the world.

Done all I've suggested

I think I need to clarify here - YOU can't alone make his next moments different, though you can certainly help, and being aware that it's necessary really helps. Bottom line is that HE has to be involved in making the next moment different. To be successful HE must:

understand the necessity of change
take his ADHD seriously (none of this "you're the one with the problem stuff")
understand the depth of your pain

I have to think that you've talked with him in a calm way about your pain?

All suggested

It's very difficult to see the calm manner in which you are now able to discuss things with your husband. I am very afraid that I will never be able to get to that point with my partner.

I asked her this morning (in a calm & what I thought was a caring manner) about how she felt her new meds were working for her. You would have thought I accused her of committing some horrible crime! I had to do a massive tap dance to try and get her to understand my motive in asking, which really was only to see how she was feeling. She's had heart palpitations on some of her other meds.

She is one of those experts at deflecting any "blame".

I think she really likes the idea that she has ADD. She loves being different (she's an artist), so it's very difficult to get her to understand that the effects of her ADD are really hurting those around her. She's said before that she feels like I'm trying to change her to be something she's not and that I would like it if she were more plain.

I just love it if she'd take it down a notch, but she doesn't get it. We have the same arguements over and over again, and like so many in these posts, the only way to get them to stop is to give in or live in a home where we barely communicate at all - our present situation.

being different

There's a big difference between "being different" and valuing that and being incapable of effectively communicating or responding to people around you. If she didn't feel threatened by your requests to "turn it down a notch" she would likely not interpret your question about meds as an insult. (By the way, "did you take your meds?" and "how are / are your meds working?" are REALLY loaded questions for folks with ADHD. The underlying question (not in your case, but usually) is a sort of back-handed insult (as in "I don't really see the meds working" and "you are misbehaving...I bet you didn't take your meds today...")

Perhaps your conversations need to center around what she loves about her that make her feel great about herself and her artistry so that you can also talk about other parts that maybe aren't so important to her that she might be willing to "give" on. Or, perhaps putting it a better way - so she understands you don't want to change who she is as a person, just some of the habits that most effect you and aren't that important to her. Everyone has these habits - things we do that we could do differently without much fuss. For example, she might think that being a "free spirit" is wonderful, which it is. But does that extend to interrupting others in mid-sentence, or is that just impulsivity? She might think that "leaving my mind open to all stimulus" is wonderful, which it is for many artists. But are there ways she can carve out part of her day or week so that the two of you can have structured, non-free-form conversations about logistics in the household? (I'm making up these examples, as you can see, but perhaps they'll give you some ideas.)

ADHD traits have what Ned Hallowell calls "mirror traits" - many can be thought of in two ways (i.e. hyperactivity can also be seen as high energy) There is a discussion of this in "Superparenting for ADHD" and it might be helpful for your conversation. You shouldn't have to (or want to) ask her to change who she is at her core - just to acknowledge that to be a successful partner she needs to deal with the fact that it isn't just all about her.

being different

You know, it was/is 'differences' that pulled me to her in the first place. I'm white bread; she's rye. I'm smooth peanut butter; she's crunchy. I can deal with those aspects, they are what make us -us.

What I can't deal with so much anymore are the accussatory letters that I get at work via email that say I don't listen or hear her. That I don't value what she is saying when I stand up for myself. That I never want to talk things out or work toward a solution.

She's now latched on to something I said in therapy session about how her argumentative nature seems to increase with her cycle. Again, she sees it as attack, not as information the doctor asked about.

I'm tired of having to defend my position. I'm tired of having to meet up to the impossible task of satisfying her standards (every changing because to actually meet them means she has to be satisfied & that's not stimulating enough).

She wrote a note tonight asking the very loaded question if I was still attracted to her and if I still wanted her in "that way". How do I say yes and no at the same time? I'm still very much attracted to her, but I can no longer summon the physical/emotional/spiritual energy to want her in that way. I've been beaten down so long.

She wants me to separate her from the ADD, but I can no more do that than I can separate her from her red hair. Its part of her make-up and has seen her through some pretty rough times in her life and really is a contributing factor to some of the things she has accomplished.

I'm not a total oaf, but sometimes all I want is a quiet backrub with no expectations in return.

It's so frustrating to not have her realize how far that would go in refilling my tanks and how much it would mean that she has heard me.

Being heard

That last sentence is 100% true for both of you - you want to be heard and she is saying she wants to be heard.

I suggest you read "Beyond Reason - Using Emotions as You Negotiate" by Roger Fisher and Daniel Shapiro. This is an excellent book, originally written for businesspeople, but very relevant for the kinds if issues that the two of you seem to be having. Look at the five core concerns and consider talking about them in your therapy sessions as a way to break your current logjam.

As for the answer to her question about wanting her. Your response here is a very straightforward response, and very accurate. What you are describing is, to some degree, "I want you and the person I know you can be, but I'm tired of the difficult behaviors you are throwing at me all the time (some of which are the ADHD as you describe them)." You love her, but not her behavior...which is a distinction that many of us make when we are trying to talk with our teenagers - we can still love you, but you are treating me/your friends/your teachers (fill in the blank) badly and we don't love that. This may be a good conversation to have with the therapist present?

Sounds like my wife

This sounds just like my wife. She is an artist as well and I go through the same things you are going through. I pray for you and your wife.

Calm Talk

19 years, I have talked, screamed, cried, had temper tantrums, silent treatment and come full circle to calm talk again. I have tried to explain my pain. His response is "I have a love need so big, it can't possibly be filled" (we haven't had intimacy physical or other in years) or "my happiness is not his responsibility" (true to a point) or "your pain is from your first husband and you are blaming me." (could have been true the first year of our marriage - 19 years ago). These are things he has grabbed a hold of from previous councel sessions.

He was interested in change a few weeks ago, he is still interested in change. He had stated he cant remember my needs unless they are written down. So I suggested we do that. We did. I had a list of 7 or 8 things I need from him. He had only one of me (don't be so quick to anger). I encouraged him to write more, but he said that is all he asks of me. I have expressed to him that the first efforts should be to explore ways to address his under-treated ADD. I told him I would not do the leg work. I have given him hints of what to do. I have brought him to this web site on occasion. He has not done anything yet.

In an attempt to stay financially stable, I told him we had to carry our own health insurance. I waited as long as I could to change my dependents. I made the change and he has not signed up for his yet. I am afraid he will end up without health insurance and that is going to hit me hard fiancially. Or he is going to end up not getting any help with ADD. Again - this will end up with consequences for me.

I feel as though I am betraying him at times. Then he does something so "off base", I know that this is the right thing to do.

I think.........

accident prone

Okay, I don't know where this fits--my ADHD DH is quite accident prone. It's costing us a lot of money. how do I deal with this? The last thing he did was quite a doozy--he has a group of friends with whom he plays softball in the summer, basketball in the winter, poker once a month, etc. They are nice guys--I am happy he has friends to hang out with, BUT...two weeks ago while playing basketball (a sport my DH is not particularly good at) he tripped and hit the wall. Broke his right arm in 5 places, broke three teeth and his nose. So far, besides the ER that night, he has had a CT scan for the nose/face damage, needs a root canal for the teeth he killed (two have nerve damage, one was chipped down to the root), and an MRI on his arm which still might need surgery. In two weeks we have only received a few of the bills but we are already up to $4500. There is no way we can afford all this. And that number is AFTER insurance has already paid their portion. And here is the kicker--he didn't do it on purpose, so how can I possibly be angry???? We both work full time and have two boys, ages 8 and 10. He is usually a super helpful guy, but this is really hampering what he can do (obviously) and it's going to be for at least 6 weeks, perhaps more.

any words of wisdom??

dana

Accident Prone (Comment)

My husband is accident prone too. There was a period of time when he injured ME several times (he dropped a bookcase on my foot and left a picture-hanging nail in a lunch he packed for me) and we didn't have any insurance. It was hard because I was furious for the injuries but knew he hadn't meant to, and there was nothing he could do to "fix" it. I took out accident insurance at work for just this eventuality, and then of course he stopped having accidents. (that's a good thing.)

I am surprised your insurance has paid already. Usually you get a thing from the hospital that "this is not a bill" and lists what it would cost without insurance. Then you get a more reasonable bill after the insurance has paid. Usually they have a cap and then they pay it all. Dental insurance general sucks, though. Never pays more than 50% for major stuff like root canals.

No, I don't have a lot of words of wisdom for you, just sympathy. It's always hard when they "didn't mean to" but the damage is still there.

Accident Prone (comment)

My husband's favorite saying is "I didn't do it on purpose!" He has said this so much down thru the years, our son-in-law uses the phrase on my daughter now. It is done in humor and now we can laugh. In the beginning it was not so humorous. I learned how to set up situations to minimize potential accidents.

accident prone

Dana, my husband wasn't accident-prone in sports or around our home, but before he got on meds, he was prone to auto accidents. Obviously, he didn't mean to get into them! As you can imagine, this also cost us a lot of money, albeit in wrecked cars instead of wrecked teeth (the insurance never came close to covering the total cost).

You can't be angry for having an accident -- but you *can* expect him to avoid the occasion for accidents that he seems prone to, on a going forward basis. (Just like the Catholic church taught me as a kid to "avoid the occasion for sin"!). In my husband's case, the repeated auto accidents drove me to insist he see a doctor, which led to his ADD diagnosis. At that point we rearranged the driving responsibilities so my husband had far fewer opportunities to get into an accident -- he almost never drove at first, except a short distance to and from work -- then he worked on changing his driving habits. Over time he has learned how to drive without having accidents or tickets, and now the driving is more evenly distributed again. Since he takes his meds in the morning and they tend to be wearing off in the evening, I tend to do most of the late-night driving.

We were able to negotiate these changes because my husband acknowledged that even though he hadn't intended anything bad, the reality was that because he couldn't always control everything he needed to, he was more likely to have a problem, and that was costing us a lot of money as well as creating a lot of inconvenience in our lives (when we had to replace and repair vehicles, court appearances, etc). He accepted that it would be just as irresponsible for him to keep doing so much driving and getting into accidents as it would be for me, with my terrible allergies and asthma, to insist on constantly exposing myself to my worst allergens and then ending up in the hospital all the time.

Maybe your husband needs to give up very active, rambunctious sports in favor of less potentially dangerous activities (grass-court tennis? curling?). Or maybe he needs to work with a counselor to play a more disciplined game? If he can't manage that, maybe he should give up his risky activities altogether. I realize that your husband probably would not be happy about any of these alternatives, but in my opinion he needs to accept the responsibility for learning from his mistakes, whether he intended his actions or not -- otherwise he is not being fair to his family.

Burned Out with Husband's ADHD

I am new to this site and I feel so overwhelmed with my husband that I really didn't know where to post, but "Changing What Never Changes" sounded like the best place to start. I love this website and it has been wonderful reading the blogs and knowing that I not alone.

My husband has just recently been diagnosed with Adult ADHD, PTSD (Post Tramatic Stress) and he has Hep C a chronic potentially deadly disease that he picked up in the Army during the Vietnam War era. I have been married to my husband for 9 1/2 yr. and the first 10 months were just wonderful and all the rest has been a wild roller coster ride with him. This is a 2nd marriage for me and the first for my husband. I was 46 and he was 48 when we got married.

It is so complicated dealing with him, I hardly know where to start. It has taken me 3 years, since he first got his Hep C diagnosis, to get him into counseling at the VA (Veterans Assoication) , and is the VA that has finally given us the diagnosis of the ADHD & PTSD. It was just a few days ago that my husband actually acknowledged that he had ADHD and that it expalined so much. But then he he promptly got on the internet and found a web site that said there really isn't any such thing as ADHD and that a pill could cure him.

My husband gravitates to the outlandish and is jumping from one crazy cure to another. He does this with every aspect of his life, but for him to brjng this behavior to his health situation is so destructive. I could go on and on about the unstable choices my husband makes over and over, from the crazy friends (alcohlolic, drug addicts, etc.) to quitting his job because God told him to, etc. Along with the craziness my husband has used very abusive lanuage on me throughout our marriage and has seen me as the unstable one trying to control him. 4 years ago I sought marriage counseling and it only made the whole situation worse -- my husband doesn't fight fair but expects me too, and I have expected it of myself too.

For years I have kept things together with the home, the financing, the taxes, all of it and trying to help him with his health issues. There is no way to have a plan with him, he doesn't keep his word to anything and quickly forgets it all or doesn't include me. I am so burned out and frustrated with him. I have loved him so much and still want to find a solution but I have gotten to the end of my rope and I just can't stand it anymore.

Loving someone with ADHD is very painful becuase they aren't devoid of love or a conscience and can be so sweet. My husband (if pointed in the right direction) will move mountians for me. I am a Christain and my faith has kept me sane and also given me the strengthto try to help my husband. I don't know where I am going to end up with all this now though because I am not willing to tollerate all the crazy stuff and I am not getting younger.

Thanks to the folks that have this web site.

He was diagnosed, but then what?

Hello... seems that your husband was diagnosed with ADHD, but does he still think... "so what?" It's one thing to just be diagnosed with ADHD like getting diagnosed with high-blood pressure or diabetes... but it's another thing to ACTUALLY do something about it. Like having a heart-attack because of high-blood pressure, it seems your husband has NOT had any shock to his system for having ADHD. So he's thinking... why should I change my ways?

I'm an ADHD male and I've had a shock... going thru a divorce. It took a virtual slap up-side-the-head to see that ADHD is a real problem. Here is my thread: http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/find-volunteer-slapper-your-husband-and-reason

Don't expect your marriage to get any better, until both you and more importantly, your husband DO something to address his ADHD. No pain, no gain... he has little pain currently... why would anyone change? I'm not saying get a divorce... but separation or some shock is needed for some people to change their lifestyle. Change occurs to someone only when they hurt really bad.

I hope you and your husband stay married and it works out... you have a long road ahead of you.

Burned Out with Husband's ADHD, pt. 2

Hi Dan, Thanks for the insightful response. Sounds like you have done some major work on ADHD!
My husband and I have only known for literally a week although it has been obvious for years that there has been something deeper here. Our VA counselor has basically told me what you did -- but in my husband's case I don't think leaving him would do a thing for him -- in his case it's "out of sight out of mind." He is a trucker and he can just disappear and it doesn't seem to distrub him. He turns off his cell phone or caller IDs me and splits. I think it is right up his alley to run away, seperation is the easy answer in his case! I really think that if I seperated from him he would feel less pain and do absolutely nothing. It's not fair to me that's for sure, but welcome to life where not much is fair! I have some combat Murphy's Laws taped to my office door and one of them says "The easy way is always mined." Ha!

My husband is indicating that he is going to work on his ADHD. The VA counselor is recommending that he do a 4 month outpatient clinic where he would have to go for 4 months and couldn't work during that time and this just isn't reality. My husband has such a hard time sticking to anything that I am going to be shocked if he really sticks with this outside of a clinic situation-- there would be more hope if he could go do the outpatient clinic! In this case he would go there and live for 4 months and be compeletly immersed in it.

I am just so burned out and in so much emotional pain right now. I am really feeling the weight of the world on my shoulders, it is just one thing after another with him. I am to the point that I can't keep putting out his fires anymore and this has dire consequences because it effects us so badly financially on top of all the health issues. He is a trucker and he got 2 tickets within a short period of time this last fall and now he has 4 points against his CDL license in just a couple of months and we are needing to switch who he is leased on to with our semi-truck and now he can't because of the points against his license. I should have done all the necessary stuff to buy off the legal system to get him out of the tickets so he wouldn't have points accessed against his license, but I just couldn't cope with it all. On one of them, he forgot to pay it, and got taken to jail by the Highway State Patrol. Thank goodness my parents went and bailed him out so he could get back on the road with our truck -- it is our paycheck! Last summer something happened to me emotioanlly and I just felt like I couldn't manage everything anymore, and I started letting some things ago -- although I making myself pay the bills! I can't explain what happened last summer, there was no specific event other then I just got burned out, fed up, tired, etc. Also I live in the country down a long drive all by myself and the loneliness too has worn me down.

Like I said eariler, I could go on and on about the things he does, it is just crazy and it never stops. There is no stability. In the past he would get so angry at me if I say anything. He is just so emotional if I cross him up -- mean really. I am hoping and praying that he is going to change things now, that he will recognize that he is doing things and not having boundaries that is necessary to life. My problem is that I am so angry with him, I know I will have to deal with this. The whole deal is just so hard right now because I want to support and help him and hang in there with him but I just don't trust him and it feels very sane to take steps to protect myself from him and have some kind of hope other then hoping he will get better -- which is starting to make plans (hedging my bets you might say) to leave the situation with him. Which is very hard for me to do -- this is going to take a lot of work for me to do because of the financies and really requiers me to give up so much of what I have worked on for so long. But I have mixed thoughts about this because he really is on the verge of getting help for the first time and I don't want to quit now. I am trying to give him this chance, the VA is offering him a chance that we haven't had before, but we didn't find it until I just couldn't stand it anymore. I don't know what to do, but turn it over to the Lord, becuase it is all bigger then me!

Right now I have a ton of bills and not enough money people with threatening to turn stuff off stuff on us. I am just trying to figure out what to pay first -- and there is so much more that I can't even tell it all. I just have to stop thinking about it for the momement or I feel my head is going to explode!

I see that they offer counseling on this site -- I want to look into this.

I am just feeling at about the lowest point in my life right now. But it is nice to meed you anyway and God bless you for writing. I hope that you keep blogging about this and that I haven't hurt your brain cells with my problmes!

Radiolady...good luck to you

Radiolady...good luck to you and your husband.

I can't agree with Dan any more. Too often, I feel (and to be honest...I think I was one of them at one point) people think getting diagnosed and going on meds is "the cure" and its now dealt with and we're moving on happily ever after. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Diagnosis and medication is only a first step in a long journey. Your husband has spent 50+ years developing his habits and compensating behaviors. Even if he is fully engaged and accepting of his circumstances, he's metaphorically being asked to learn how to walk and speak a new language all over again. Its a daunting task even for the most committed people. We haven't even mentioned the fact that many around him will expect him to be "cured" and "get it right the first time", assuming they even understand what it is he is dealing with in the first place. Most men of his generation won't understand it, nor will they bother to try.

I'm not asking you (or anyone else that chooses to support someone with our condition) to feel sorry for him or excuse his behavior. Just understand that compounding your husband's struggle with ADD (or the denial of its existence) is decades of his accumulated habits, societal beliefs, and his own internal frustration at dealing with the world he lives in. Yes, its extremely frustrating to deal with someone in denial. I suspect many ADD'ers wind up there because they don't want to deal with the pain and frustration of disappointing everyone around them any more. In my case, I think I struggled with the denial because for the longest time, no one knew why I did what I did, least of all me. Rather than continually face ridicule, shame, and frustration, its easier to shut down and withdraw. Emotional disconnection is something men come by easily, unfortunately. Give a man 5 decades to perfect his disconnection, and its hardly any wonder that he can't find himself.

For you, I think its a question of do you want to help him through the denial and help him reach acceptance--and will you be okay with him if he is unable to get there?

Burned Out Pt. 3

Dear LaTuFu, Thank you for your well wishes. It is really encouraging to hear from someone who has ADHD and is doing something about it.

My husband's prognosis is not good. I know this. I am struggling right now with all the anger I feel. I have been taking it out on him alot. He has other serious issues too, and I feel very overwhelmed. I just don't know the answers right now. It is so destructive and I am feeling so tired that I am feeling resentful and just wanting a vacation or some kind of relief from it all instead of another fire to put out. If I told you what was on my plate just from dealing with situations that he has innocently gotten himself into it would sound like a job for 3 people, let alone taking care of my own work responsibilities. I am in the process of taking steps that hopefully will give him and I both some security, I love him and he loves me, but for right now I'd just like to scream at him -- which only makes him really check out. If I stay it has to be minus the anger on my part or a superior attitude that I would be doing him a big favor, it has to be with sincere love and I'm trying to sort it all out right now. I have my own demons to fight and I am far from perfect so I have to deal with the nagging critical part common to most of us females. Anyway, I have a lot of faith in God and I am determined to give all this enough time for a good decision on my part regardless of how I feel right now and I am just not going to hurry it. But regardless I am very pleased that he is acknowledging it -- it made my day! :-)

I guess the dividing line is whether on not this will bring strength and fortude into my life or will it undo me? Wouldn't we be rich if we could answer this one!

sound attitude

Radiolady, from your posts you sound like a lady with a good head on her shoulders and a very sound attitude about how to deal with your situation. Those are big pluses!!! From my experience with all the gals I know who've worked through their marital problems with an ADD husband (including myself!), as well as those who've ended up divorced, my sense is that you are going to be OK, regardless of where things end up. Not saying it will be easy! But you show qualities that will serve you well with these new challenges. Hang in there!

Reply to Sound Attitude from Burned Out

Thank you Arwen for the great encouragment. Your sense that I am going to be OK isn't something that I can feel, but I want to believe it. Somehow I have to step out of the crazy dance that we are in and change the whole game and this is a bigger load then I was expecting! This is such new terroirty for me that the temptation is to run and maybe it will be better, but I know this isn't true. I figure I would come out OK in the end if I left, but it would seriously break my heart to see what would happen to my husband! My question is "Can it come out OK if I stay?" Now I have to be so strong and honestly I was wanting it little bit cushier then this! Ha! I can't imagine what I will look like after I'm all poured out and nothing is left (which is about how it feels now) and now I have to pull myself up by my boot straps and go not just the extra mile, but on a whole new journey that looks like it will take me the rest of my life and then some with no a no guaranteed outcome.

So how did you start dealing with it Arwen? Are you still married or did you leave? Anyway, thank again for your kind encouragment, it reallly does my heart good!

no guarantees

Radiolady, my case history with my spouse's ADD is probably not very typical, so I'm not sure how much help it would be to you. In my husband's family, all the men have ADD -- but they "outgrow" it during puberty and "grow back in" to it during middle age, it seems to be hormone related. When my husband and I married in our early 20's, we didn't know this -- he exhibited very few ADD behaviors, and our marriage in the early years had only the usual adjustments that every couple makes. When he started "growing back in" to his ADD after 15 years of marriage, it was a gradual process. So I was very very gradually sucked in to dealing with it. He wasn't actually diagnosed until we'd been married 20 years (he was the first in his family to be diagnosed). By that time we had two kids and a lot of time and effort invested in our relationship.

When he was diagnosed with ADD (non-hyperactive), he got on meds and into counseling, and these helped in many ways once the right dosages were determined (that can take some time). Unfortunately, my husband also had Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), which we did not know about. His SAD (we now see) was very mild when he was first diagnosed with ADD, but as he got older it got progressively worse. Most people with SAD get depressed during winter. My husband didn't, thank goodness -- instead, it impacted his progress with his ADD -- we'd make progress half the year, and lose most of it the other half of the year (we didn't see the seasonal pattern for some time) -- a real see-saw. Again, I was kind of sucked in to dealing with it gradually. We got to a point about eight years ago where his ADD behaviors would get increasingly worse as fall progressed, he'd be lethargic, uncommunicative and spacey all winter, and then as he'd come out of it he'd get very impulsive in the spring. We recognized the SAD problem then, and he started experimenting with light therapy (this is the standard SAD treatment). Our progress slowly improved, but we were still a long way from ideal.

By the time my husband was diagnosed with ADD, my natural inclination to impatience and anger had had plenty of fuel, and I was yelling at him a lot. (mistake) After his diagnosis, I tried to learn and understand as much as I could about ADD (good), but at that point there weren't a ton of resources. I thought the meds would make his brain "normal" (mistake), so now he would be able to learn to behave "better" with counseling. When the progress wasn't as fast as I wanted, I got angrier with him (mistake). For a very long time, he didn't understand that he didn't just need to learn new habits, he also needed to learn new skills (mistake). The see-saw nature of his progress due to his undiagnosed SAD was by turns encouraging, bewildering and infuriating. During the bad times, I really seriously considered leaving my husband. We had some really bad fights. I was spending a lot of time dealing with his behaviors and their fallout, and running on empty a lot of the time. Our son also has ADD (diagnosed at the same time as my husband), so I was also dealing with that, and the bad times were having a terrible effect on both our kids, in different ways. I was working and able to support myself and our kids on my own (albeit at a great financial sacrifice), and I felt that *I* would be better off if I divorced my spouse, but I eventually concluded for a variety of reasons that it would be worse for our kids if I did, so I stayed for their benefit, thinking that if things didn't improve that I would divorce when they were grown in a few more years.

A few years ago, my husband decided not to use his light therapy, and his behavior during SAD season went from frustrating to completely intolerable. I was finally exhausted, physically deteriorating (still recovering!), stressed out of my mind and I just couldn't take it all anymore. With our kids grown, I asked him to move out. We were separated for a little under a year. It was a real wake-up call for my husband. Not only did he agree to go back to using the light therapy, but he also agreed to explore seasonal modifications of his meds with his doctors, which I'd been urging for years without any acceptance. We also implemented changes in our dynamic and our relationship improved significantly, although it was a lot of hard work. We are now at a very good place -- we have yet to restore all the intimacy to our marriage that we once had, but in every other respect we have never been better.

Things have worked out for our marriage, but we both definitely made a lot of mistakes along the way. Anger does not help! Understanding ADD very thoroughly does (I wish I'd had the resources now available). It took us a long time to find a dynamic that allowed us to achieve a true understanding of how we deal with things differently -- maybe if my husband's counselor had been familiar with ADD from the start of my husband's counseling, it would have taken less time. I'm persistent and analytical, which does help. Maybe one of my best contributions was the fact that "us" truly is just as important to me as "me", so when I was working to resolve our problems, I truly was trying to find what was best for all of us, not just what was good for me.

But I really must stress that we could not possibly have gotten where we are without both his meds and his counseling. The meds help to stabilize the neurotransmitter activity in the brain so that new, more cooperative habits and skills can be learned and utilized. I can tell when my husband has forgotten to take his meds, or hasn't changed his dosage according to the appropriate seasonal schedule, the difference is definitely noticeable. Getting him to accept that he had a problem and needed treatment was very difficult, but it was without question an essential step. The counseling was just as important as the meds (think of it as being given a powerful complicated tool -- you also need training about how to use it from a professional). It has taken many years, but it has been money and effort very well spent.

You are right, though, that there is no guaranteed outcome. Like so many things in life, all you can do is take your best shot and hope it works out.

Scene Size Up

Boy, youhave been through a long haul alright. I'ts really does require patience. When we have invested so much of our lives into a relatiionship I think it is terribly difficult to "jump ship." And there is no way to really weiigh out the benefits of going or stating when you have never been down that road, and if we have ben through a divorce (which have) there is no way to be certain life will be better. And I do know this, when you love some one (and I do love my husband) then how do you walk away? Emotional pain is a huge thing. The emotional pain of staying and the emotional pain of leaveing -- talk about a tough thing!! I think it depends on the people in involved and each one has to decide what they want to do.

I just don't know how this will turn out at this point. The best way I can explain it, is that I don't want to have regrets, and I have to stay away from the anger -- I am really feeling that I need to keep as much sanity in my life as possible. You talked about how you didn't know about your husbands ADD and how you were drawn into it for a long time; this is how it has been for me. I am finding strength in knowing now and I am determined to face it. I think the diagnosis is for the one who has it but the facing it is for both spouses. For some many years I haven't known and I just suffer in silence hoping that it will pass (as you stay "mistake!"). I have found so much strenght in looking this demon in the eye, and not just for my husband either, but for my own sake. Although I am looking for ways that will be a mutual blessing if possible. My background is in healthcare and EMS and we learned alot about scene size up and one of the first things you learn as an EMT is to realisticly size up the scene of an accident and to responsd in a certian way so you didn't become a victum too in order to be able to recue those in need. I am trying to approach my husband's ADD this way. It has me a lot. I have just gotten so angry and impatient with him and I am trying to step out of th anger. I am making some headway, but there is a longway to go here. I do have the benefit of a VA counselor and he will counsel me -- thank goodness. Blessings and nice to talk to you!

RAdiolady 2 - anger

One of the all time best resources on how to deal with anger is a book called "The Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner. Treat yourself to a copy because I think you'll find it really helpful.

I agree with you completely - you don't want to have any regrets. I'm a strong believer that people of good ethics will try really hard - even try to find the way that will help them try "best" (not just hard)...and you'll either work through it or you will know when you can't any more. Managing your anger will come from setting those boundaries around important core issues (again, see the boundaries post), acting in a way that fits with your own religious and personal beliefs, and stepping out of the cycle (see book). You can help your husband by being a sounding post for him as he explores how to better control his life...but never decide that you can change his life for him. You can't, and to try to will be a huge exercise in futility (and build more anger for you both).

Anger & Depression

I thought I replied to this but it doesn't look like it made it through for some reason. Thanks on the book, I will check it out. I also, just found your reply on depression -- yes, I am depressed but I don't like the side effects of serotionin re-uptake blockers. I am trying to impove how I feel one step at a time with being realistic (I think this made me even more depressed!). My husband not only has ADD, but he has PTSD too. He also has Hep C. And he will not take medication of any kind, this is out for him. My husband isn't going to be dealt with in the usual way. I am at a loss with what to do. I truly am depressed and I am wanting to get to a better place, but where to turn and what to do? I am so overwhelmed with it all. I just want to sort out what is my own little corner and take it from there, one thing at a time. I want to get hold of establishing my bourndaries again -- I am trying to remember what those even looked like. I have been so down, that I have had a hard time working lately and sleeping. I will do better in the days ahead, I am sure, but for now I feel like I have to look up to see down!
I will lean on God, read the Bible and pray, and even through I don't feel like it I will keep moving forward and little by little I will find my way in this uncharted wilderness. I think it is a very narrow path too for I don't want to bring harm to my husband and some how find away to bless him and not curse him in the midst of this. I am determined to find my way out and escape the crazy circle of repeated outbursts and getting caught putting out his fires. The wife of a man with ADD isn't in a 50/50 relationship and she is in one that is often very blaming and angry too -- which I am. To make matters worse my husband is a trucker and gone alot and I live way back in the country by myself. The isolation has been overwhelming.

Thank you for your concern. :-)

Arwen

I have read alot of posts and emailed a ton of stories and info to my wife, who is away from me right now. I really like when you said...

I am scared that I dont have years....or even months to get my act together. But the whole idea of stabilizing my brain activity so I can develop new skills and habits....is pretty darn cool. I want to include my wife in counseling, its early in my diagnosis, and she has to buy into the disorder, as much as I have to start making positive sincere, changes. For years, I thought things were going ok...never saw the bad......and I know now, it was really bad, drained her totally...one reason why she screamed at me, asked me loaded questions, made me panic and end up telling stupid little lies......I give you alot of credit for sticking with him, and working on things...I never had the shot with the 2 previous marriage counselors and 2 previous private counselors...they never said I had adhd....and kept placing an emphasis on making my wife number 1.....always. Which I tried.......and couldnt juggle everything....it was like......I only have enough focus for one thing, be it my little girl, my job or before my little girl came along....my wife.

"how do you broaden your focus" to show others that you love more then one thing..or you can deal with more then one thing?

I guess a question for all.

how do you broaden your focus?

Ryan, first of all I want to say that while it took my husband and me many years to get to a good place in our relationship again, I really do believe it didn't have to take as long as it did. I had very few resources to guide me, so it was all "trial and error", which took a lot longer for me to learn from than I would have from guidance. Also, my husband's counselor was not initially versed in treating ADD -- he studied it and learned about treating it as my husband went along in his counseling -- and I'm sure that if we'd been able to find a counselor that my husband was comfortable with who had been versed in treating ADD, my husband's progress would have been quicker too. So don't be discouraged just because we took a long time to resolve our issues -- I think it can go a lot quicker. But there's no question that shorter or longer, it does take a *lot* of effort.

You ask "how do you broaden your focus"? I don't have a simple answer for you on this. If I look at my husband, I'm not sure I would say that he has broadened his focus, exactly. Rather, I'd say it was more of a case of developing serial, or alternating, focus. When my husband is at work, he is totally focused on his job, and doesn't give any thought to his family or important things going on at home. Sometimes he needs to make an important personal call to some professional like a doctor or broker, that can't be done outside of business hours, and because he's so focused on his job at work (generally a very good thing!), it can take him weeks before he can remember to take care of this personal thing that has to be handled during his work day. But when he is at home, he forgets about his job and focuses on non-work matters. We have formal meetings at home three times a week which are structured situations that require him to focus on home/family/interpersonal matters. Even before we implemented that, we had a weekly family meeting, involving all family members, to address these kinds of things. Before he was diagnosed with ADD, he'd just focus at home on whatever interested him. With the help of meds and counseling, he learned to focus on the situation he was in, and change his focus as his situation changed.

Now, in a sense this is a bit of an oversimplification As I mentioned, sometimes he needs to deal with a personal issue during his work day. And sometimes he needs to bring work home, to meet a deadline. To help him move from one context to the next, he uses a PDA with alarms. Then, if he needs to make that personal call to a doctor during the work day, he can set an alarm to go off during his lunch break to remind him to temporarily break out of his work-oriented focus and do the call -- then another alarm to remind him to return to his work focus. The same thing happens in reverse at home when he needs to bring work home.

Aside from using the PDA to help him switch from one focus to another, my husband deliberately uses his commuting to help him change focus. He makes sure he listens to a non-news radio station while commuting, so that his mind doesn't get focused on that, and instead listens to either very relaxing nature sounds (if he's not driving!) or oldies that he can sing along with but doesn't really need to think about -- this clears his mind for the next focus. I discovered how important this transitional strategy was when we went through a period of time when we carpooled to work together -- if I tried to talk to him about *either* home or work issues in the car, either to or from work, he had a terrible time with keeping his mind on the conversation -- or he got so involved in our conversation that he couldn't get his mind *off* of it after we'd arrived at work or home. I finally learned I had to talk only about unimportant, external things, like "did you know that today is national jumping bean day?" or say nothing at all.

So, I don't think that you necessarily need to deal with more than one thing at a time. I think if you can just improve the switching from one focus to another, it can make a big difference.

I don't know if this helps -- I wish you good luck, and I hope you can work out your issues with your family!

right track

Radiolady, you seem to be on the right track in many ways. You are right that you need to take steps to protect yourself financially. There are other posts on this website that address coping with money matters, I strongly recommend you take a look at them. Regarding paying your bills, I don't know if you can get much help from any credit card companies, but other creditors like utilities may give you some additional time or accept partial payments if you contact them and discuss your situation with a supervisor -- I would try explaining that your husband has been diagnosed with a mental disability which affected his ability to work, but now he is getting treatment and you are working to turn things around over the next several months.

In my experience, it's important to make yourself as independent from your spouse as possible. Until he adjusts to his medications and learns new habits and behaviors (and LaTuFu is right, this could take a very long time, and considering your husband's age, may be very limited), you probably cannot rely on him, so you need to be as self-reliant as you can manage. Take care of yourself as best you can -- make sure you get enough sleep, try to use some relaxation techniques, find out if the VA will provide *you* with any free counseling (or maybe you can do some sessions jointly with your husband).

You have a lot invested in your relationship (as did I when my husband was diagnosed in his early 40's, after 20 years of marriage), and while the meds and counseling are definitely not any kind of "cure" -- there is no such thing with ADD -- they *can* make a significant difference. It took my husband and me more than 10 years to work things out (probably would have been shorter if I'd had this website to help! but I was groping in the dark), but now we've managed to resolve most of our issues and have a really good relationship again. It takes a lot of work -- but the way I looked at it, it was probably going to take almost as much work, and probably with less payoff, if I left him -- I wouldn't have been able to depend on him for child support, I couldn't be sure he would honor custody arrangements, and I'm sure there would have been recurring problems with getting my fair share of our retirement money (which would have included his pension) down the road -- actually, I couldn't even be sure he'd stay with the meds and counseling if I weren't around, and then who knew what might happen? These kinds of questions (and others) are all important considerations in determining your path forward.

So, please avail yourself of all the experience and insight available here through the blogs and posts! Many of us have been in similar situations and can offer ideas about the kinds of things that have worked (or not) for us. Hang in there, good luck!

For Radiolady

There are phrases you use in your notes that suggest that you might be suffering from depression, and could benefit from treatment, as well. I'm not a doctor, but one could work with you to see if you are clinically depressed. If you are, medication can help ease some of the unbearable feelings you have. (It's not uncommon for spouses of people who've had untreated ADHD to become depressed.)

You are moving in the right direction - setting boundaries for yourself is important (see my blog post on boundaries in the favorites section) and also Arwen's advice to make sure you feel comfortable that you can be self-sufficient as best possible can take away some of the stress. Supporting a person who has ADHD doesn't mean doing everything for them - a better way is a sort of "loving detachment". He will benefit from treating ADHD - but treatment includes both physical changes (medications, exercise, sleep all cause physical changes that help in ADD treatment) and behavioral changes (new habits that address long-standing issues). A big problem will be that he often won't "see" what needs to be done...have patience with this. If you push him really hard, he'll get defensive and continue to not see it. If you can be encouraging in your persistence, you'll do better. (Think dealing with teenagers for a good comparison. Push them too hard and you get nowhere.)

Best of luck to you.

My long road ended with a cliff

I have read your threads for the last few months. I have been married to my ADD spouse for 19 years. I am a complete poster child for a spouse of an ADHD person. The diagnosis did not come easy. I convinced my husband to test for it when our youngest was diagnosed, she was 12 and now she is 21. He was tested and the doctor told him he did not haved ADHD. Victory for him!!!! He felt so vindicated. Another few years went by and I was able to convince him to test again, this time at a different location. He was given a full complete test and the diagnosis came back ADHD!!! He has been on meds since then. They worked for the first few years and practised therapy suggestions to help him make better choices.

At this point, everything most certainly became my fault. I was totally convinced of this - he kept telling me so. If I wouldnt yell all the time or if I was not frustrated all the time, if I wasn't depressed or tired all the time. (I was the one who made sure the bills were paid and food was on the table. He was the one who would quit his job cuz he was tired of it. He was the one who took summers off, pretending to look for work.) Anyway...if was more fun to be with, he wouldn't have to seek out women friends to have nice conversations with. He would want to be with me more. I even began seeing a shrink, thinking there was something very wrong with me!!

A few months ago I couldn't take it any longer. I felt like a puppy constantly trying to do more and more for him, chasing him for companionship and friendship. I was so exhausted, I couldn't function any longer. I could go into more detail, but my details are the same as all the other blogs from all the other broken spouses. I told him we were done. Completely accepting my failure to make this marriage work. He is a very happy, friendly person, it would have to me my fault. Right!!??

Then I fell onto this site. I was completely shocked!!! I am almost 50, not too much shocks me any more, but this site did!!! I never heard about such a thing as the effects of ADHD on marriages. I cried and cried. For nearly 20 years I thought I was such a monster. Or a B...... as he loved to call me.

Anyways, the nite before he was to move out, he said all the right things and I agreed to try one more time. I shared this site with him. I even read one of your blogs to him about being slapped up along the head. Things seemed to be taking a positive turn.

Then last week, I discovered he has befriended many new young ladies again on a popular social web site. The conversations between him and them was devistating to say the least. I asked him why. His response was, "we just don't understand each other." "I can't do what you ask." "I feel as though I have been put on the operating table, cut open, just to have the surgeon say, yep you have this problem, and walk away." "I will not or can not try any other ADHD treatments because I cannot take the possibility of it not working." "I can not or will not take that chance."

I tried to approach him in many different ways. He is firm in his stand. I told him I couldn't continue with the fear of coming home and finding one of his "friends" in our home..or in his arms. So...we are being civil to each other until Christmas is over. Then we will begin the ending of a 19 year marriage.

He seems happy. He can forget yesterday and not look to tomorrow. He lives in the "now". I am trying hard, but am barely making it through each day. I have been used and thrown away. The pain of the last 19 years is enough to last a life time. I would rather be alone. Do you remember Simon and Garfunkle's song "I am a Rock". That is what I have become being married to someone with ADHD. What is really funny is, I still feel as though I have failed him terribly. I really wish I could do more, I just can't anymore. I am so tired.

I really pray you can make it work for yourself and your children. You sound determined. I will pray for your success and happiness. Good luck.

you did not fail

You've done everything you possibly could, you can't force him to accept what he doesn't want to. I'm sure you know that inside your head, but it may take a while before you know it in your heart too. It's not failure when you decide you don't want to sacrifice your entire life to suit somebody else, let alone without anything even remotely like reciprocation.

I think -- I hope -- you will begin to feel differently after you actually stop living with your spouse. When my husband and I separated, I experienced a great feeling of relief. Our son, who was still living in our home at the time, told me I seemed a lot happier being separated -- I laughed more, I sang while I did chores. Inside, I didn't feel happier, exactly, but I was certainly hugely less stressed. It wasn't until I experienced these changes that I realized just how high a toll my husband's problems had been taking on me. It helped me to understand our relationship more objectively. If my husband had not been willing to work hard to resolve our problems, I would have been able to go through with a divorce without a qualm, which is definitely not how I would have felt before we separated. My husband did not want a divorce, and was willing to do the hard work, so we ended up getting back together and staying married. But I definitely came at our relationship from a better, more rational state of mind. I hope you will experience this same kind of revelation at some point soon.

My prayers are with you, I wish you peace and strength and better luck in the future.

How??

Thank you for your kind words. But on this beautiful bright 1st day of 2010, I can't see past my failure and pain. He has left now. He was out last night with his wonderful "friends" at a casino hotel, having a great time and partying. I am here at home crying like never before (i am a tough German, we don't cry) He says he will come over in a few hours so we can beging signing the paperwork necessary. I am dying and he has a new life of freedom. It hurts so bad,......how can I do .....what can I do.... i don't know. I always have the answers for everyone else, I can't even think strait enough to know what questions to ask....let alone to answer for myself. All I know is I have never been so alone, in pain and defeated in my life.

Again and again..my heart

Again and again..my heart goes out to you. I was where you are a couple of years ago. I finally made it through the divorce (we were married over 25 years). I still cry over the lost marriage, but I know I could have done nothing else. I had to leave to be safe, to be healthy, and to be happy. You are going through one of the toughest times right now. It will not be easy. But life is too short to be miserable because someone you love doesn't want to do the things necessary to make life better for you. You've done what you could for him. Now you must do for yourself.

I don't understand

Hello, I'm a man with ADHD, and getting divorced because of the ramification of it going undiagnosed too long; we didn't communicate well. My thread here: http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/find-volunteer-slapper-your-husband-and-reason

I'm reading all of these forum posts from wives about their ADHD husbands having repeated, almost habitually having affairs and ongoing relationships with other women, in person or online, even if it’s just blatant flirting. Maybe it's a different culture or different society or different upbringing or different environment, or maybe "it's the water" where these people live.... but does anyone else see that cheating on a spouse, either open or secret, is just plain wrong regardless of ADHD? Since when does having a disorder like ADHD make it “acceptable” to continue to cheat just like having a doctors ongoing prescription for medical marijuana to treat glaucoma? I don't understand... am I missing someone? Please explain. Thanks.

It's wrong no matter what!

Dan, I don't think anyone condones that type of behavior whether the spouse has ADD or not. It's not acceptable! I don't believe that anyone is saying that it's ok. But, many of us have had to deal with infidelity whether it be from the ADD spouse or the non-ADD spouse.

Yes, it's wrong and my ADDer

Yes, it's wrong and my ADDer knows it and won't cross that line. He's so old school...

Good for him

Good for him! Sometimes, old school still is the best school.

It's acceptable if you accepted it.

People make mistakes and infidelity can be one of them. Daily, people make one time mistakes that can be forgiven one time, but repeating the mistake over and over and over, with no end? Accepting it over and over and over, with no end? It therefore is no longer a mistake, its common, normal... it’s acceptable. You have now dealing with an acceptable act. Perhaps this is the way of the "new school", which concerns the heck out of me about our society. Not every man in the world is a Tiger Woods, all about them. Most men, I believe, are faithful to their wives and their family, regardless of their stature. Again, will power and environment has a lot to do with it, something people cannot get by taking a pill.

To Cheat or Flirt

Dan, the rationale I have been given (both by my husband and counselors) is ADHDers act and then think, talk and then think, think of themselves and then others. An ADHDer only has one purpose (unless he/she chooses otherwise) and that purpose is to keep life interesting, easy and fun for themselves. They are the life of the party. They are the fun ones, they live for the moment, consequences are inconvieniences that will be dealt with later and later never comes. People are drawn to ADHDers. Spouses of ADHDers are the wet blanket.

Right or Wrong doesn't come into the picture. I would bet that a good portion of your delinquent teens or adults have ADHD because of acting and then thinking. My husband was raised in a very spirit filled Christian family, he was taught right from, he knows right from wrong. But acting before thinking is very common in his world.

Learn right and wrong from parents

I have ADHD... my story... http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/find-volunteer-slapper-your-husband-and-reason

Yes, the environment that an ADHD'er grows up in has a big impact on him. I too was taught right from wrong, cheating/flirting wasn't acceptable in the environment that I grew up in. Reading recent stories that Tiger Woods' father, Earl Woods believed marriage ‘unnecessary’. Is there any wonder where Tiger picked up how to treat women?

What you describe about ADHD'ers sounds like me, a bit. My first therapist (who didn't understand ADHD and therefore missed the diagnoses) only concluded that I was "self-centered". Actually, that's not entirely true, because I don't like public attention. With a new therapist, I finally discovered I was ADHD and ACoA. Man, is that's a weird combo... ADHD is outgoing, life of party and ACoA worries what other think, so is usually quite reserved, at least in public. I would have gotten in more trouble with my ADHD, but my ACoA kept me in check. Therefore, I turned into kind of a "closet Robin Williams"... only those I know and trust see glimpses of the real me, I love to be fun and silly... I just cannot in public, not even in front of siblings, since in my family growing up, I learned to keep the big elephant in the room, under wraps. But acting before thinking was common in my marriage and the downfall of it. Something I'm working on and will fix. :-)

Serial infidelity is

Serial infidelity is unacceptable anywhere, anytime. These people should not be married. I do not condone any type of infidelity. When I married, I made a compromise. I gave up other men so that I could have a loving lasting relationship with my husband. I expected my husband to do the same. As a single person, you might have a lot of relationships, but you are not likely to have a close, lasting relationship. People need to choose which lifestyle they want to live. You shouldn't have both because of the heartache it causes your spouse and family. I didn't cheat on my ADHD husband because I didn't want to hurt him, nor did I want to lose him. However, he did not feel the same, apparently. He didn't care whether he hurt me or lost me. So now he is serial dating (instead of serial cheating) but now he is single.

With that said, I can understand where there might be a slip up here and there in a long term marriage. If both spouses are willing to overlook such things and move on, then I can understand that. But again, serial infidelity, like Tiger Woods, is never acceptable, ever.

On another note, I see a lot of wives saying how much they love their ADHD/ADD husbands even though they treat them badly. But how much does your husband love you?

When to call it quits

I have been dating a man for 3 years who finally admitted to me that he has ADHD. I ended it as I can take no more. I not only tolerated the forgetfulness, lateness, interruptions, lack of conversation and rudeness, but I also found him to exhibit other behaviors that I wonder if they are related to ADHD or if there are other things going on. I am trying to understand - most of all - how to be more in touch with these kinds of behaviors and to learn from this experience. This man was very belitting in his actions and words. He would go out of his way to ask for my opinion only to say - oh I will ask my brother. He ignored birthdays and would only make holiday plans with me at the last minute - I was never a priority. He would only call me after he called his mother several times each day. He would use labels for me - - you are a nervous driver -- to describe "how I am." He also has a drinking problem which I believe to be common among ADHD. For example, while we stood in a long line at a popular destination restaurant for Thanksgiving dinner, he had to go to the bar and leave me standing. That was the last straw. At the same time, this person was always very pleasant in public - everyone thought that he was such a great guy. He blames me -- "you just get so mad." It is never his fault. Is this all ADHD?

it's ADHD, plus something else

Hello:
He may have ADHD, however ADHD alone doesn't always make people like that. Parents have a great influence on their children... find out if his parent(s) were rude to each other, or had alcoholic problems or drug abuse. The relationships in the household he was raised in and what he witnesses as an impressionable child, is how he may be living his life today. As a child, he saw what was "normal", even thought it was dysfunctional. He may not even have liked what he saw as a child, but he's living that same dysfunctional life as an adult.. he just cannot see it. He had a powerful peer when he was a child or during his teens that "also never accepted fault", so why should he. Therefore, he currently knows of no other way to act. ADHD and his childhood experiences blind him. Can he recover and change? Yes, but only if he wants to and only if there is enough pain and consequences if he doesn't. He needs theropy and the willingness to change and improve himself. I bet he's an intelligent, caring person (what you first loved in him), but ADHD and his enviroment as a child clouds the smartest adults as they get deeper into a husband/wife relationship; it's what he learned and witnessed first hand.

By the way, he sounds similar to me (minus the drinking), before I discovered what was hindering me. I have ADHD and ACoA syndrome.

Grey Skies Part Three

Mine forgot my birthday, even with a subtle reminder the day before from a Third Party. He refuses to write anything down to help him remember because he thinks it's "demeaning." I told him "no, sleeping on a park bench because you've been put out of the house is demeaning." He's begun to use the calendar on the side of the fridge and is totally responsible for his own appointments. I'll remind that they need to be made, but I don't remind him of when they are. It's up to him to look at that calendar every day.

I keep hoping, I see some progress and then something will just blow all of it out of the water. Usually having to do with his attitude toward being reminded or given suggestions on how to approach things. Anything remotely like that get's me an instant "Yes, MA'AM" and the expression of a 4 year old.

I don't mean to be so negative, I've just been holding so much inside...I've never felt, or experienced anything like this before.

long distance relationship

I am from Sweden my boyfriend is from London. We met almost 6 month ago at a concert (a passion for music that we both share).He told me very early (about a month into the relationship) that he has ADD,started a Therapy ( for "not to risk our relationship" as he said),started exercising and I read every book and article not only about ADHD/ADD but also on how to make the best out of our relationship.

The summer was fantastic. We spend time alone;with his 2 children and my 10 year old son;he came to visit me in Sweden(what a challenge for someone with ADD) and when I showed him this side he told me that the love he has for me isn´t "hyperfocus" and that I will always get the same love and affection he was showing me back then.

We had discussions about our future where we want to live and he came with reasonable arguments why he would prefer to stay in London.( Difficult to learn a new language/my son already speaks english fluently;his disability to drive a car which makes him "stuck" in the small village I live in Sweden;we both are persons who like to live in a big city) I was impressed how much effort he put in to think about both sides and not just searching for what he wants.

I made a big mistake in the beginning of our relationship not to tell him about my marriage and children immediately and the lie that I was living in an apartment with a friend instead of living in a house with my ex husband working abroad(I divorced my ex husband 2 days after I came back from London first time, a marriage that was dysfunctional for over 10 years) .I did write a letter to him before I left London where I explained though, because I felt ashamed that I started our relationship with a lie.

We only have Facebook to communicate (besides phone calls which are too expensive to use as a communication daily) Written words are easy to misinterpret,and we had long discussions via FB about him not trusting me. I´ve learned to be careful with comments and who I accept as a "friend" on FB.I am absolutely honest with him,because I am aware of that every little contradictional comment would be a disaster. I think,I´ve got his trust back (another quality in him that I appreciate,because it can´t be easy to build up trust again,especially not for someone with ADD).

Now to the point why I post my comment to" boundaries".Of course he started to become more interested in other things (he isn´t working because of a back injury):TV;E-Bay and writing comments on FB that he thinks are interesting. The mails to me got shorter and not as frequently but I must say that I´ve never noticed that the "hyperfocus" has ended ....

His tone became more rude;he gets easier upset in what I say and it takes longer to convince him that I want the best for our relationship. He yells and threatens and this is where I need help. I never made myself clear about what I expect from him,never put up any boundaries. When he is in rage I can´t get "through" to him,when he is in a good mood I don´t want to be the one who "destroys"his good mood.

When IS the best time to explain that I need us to seek help for him to control his anger?

My 10 year old son isn´t used to yelling and arguing (my ex-husband,in the rare times he was at home,avoided conflicts and so did I).I am so worried that me moving to London would have negative effects on my child).

I was thinking about telling my boyfriend that I can´t move before he(with my help) have found help to control his anger. I asked him twice if he still is in Therapy but he ignored my question. I also need to tell him that he can´t call me "2 faced whore,bitch,arse or whatever he named me ,in front of my son. I am afraid of this situation,because his favourite statement is:"I rather die on my feet than live on my knees".

How can I explain without getting him into one of his rage moods?

I would appreciate any comments!

ak girl

Run. Sorry to be so negative, but it doesn't get better from here. Do you want to model this behavior for your children? I am 6 years into a marriage, and if I had known then what I know now, I would have NEVER married him. He is unfulfilling as a partner and I have been able to hide most of the poor relationship modeling, but not all of it. The bottom line is, I do not want my 11 year old to grow up and be in a relationship like mine... My husband has ADHD, but I suspect additional mental health challenges, which he will not do anything to address. Good luck.

Were were you...

Where were you before I fell in love with mine ? It's amazing how 20/20 works with ADHD partners...I have heard soooooooo many people since I got in deep that say what you say RUN ! I have no children, but am very close to a nephew and his baby...I tell him to RUN from any form of mental illness that has not been treated successful for years. I think everyone...everyone desires a healthy mind, but not at the price of destroying a healthy one.

Hello akgirl,thank you for

Hello akgirl,

thank you for your reply. I didn't read it until now. A lot has happened since I wrote here the last time...

After christmas 2010 I moved to my then boyfriend together with my youngest son (now 11).My two other boys (18 and 16) wanted to stay in our house,with their friends and school in their familiar enviroment. My youngest son and I always had a very close bond,he is very social so he thought about us moving as an adventure and I promised him that we will "try" for half a year to see if we would fit in and become accepted mainly of my then boyfriends children (now 14 and 12) In the beginning we were "new and exciting",but already after a week or two the problems started. The children had to share a room (my son was used to have a room for himself ) and there was no space were he could pull back.He got duties like washing up,drying up and bringing out the bins from the very beginning (which I thought was only good for him). The problem was that his 14 year old son constantly stood beside my son,criticized him for not doing his work properly.I got more and more stressed,tried to help (which I wasn't allowed to).The children had 45 min. "gametime". His son could end my sons gametime just by shutting down the computer or TV whilst he was on for a lot longer knowing that his dad was too distracted to notice. I was too afraid to say anything,because every critic from my side resulted in screaming and insults from both his children. We had to hear everything from "Go back to Sweden","hope you'll die"to"I hate you". My son had to defend himself daily and it resulted in him getting stomach pain and headaches. In July 2011 after a big fight were I took my son into my/our sleeping room to give him some peace and quiet (something I wasn't allowed because my then boyfriend thought I would be "biased" and "segregate") I called my sons father and asked him to book a flight back to Sweden for my son. (The money that I got for half of our house was already gone by then.Nothing that I blame my partner for.I was careless with the money,liked to buy things for all of us) We married shortly before this happened,on July the 1st 2011... My now husband became angry (and afraid of that I would leave him once my son went back to Sweden).He said that "I took away a son from him" which I thought was very touching at the moment,but after all these month he was never interested in hearing about how my son is doing and whenever I mention him there comes no or very little response from my husband. I went into a depression.,had thoughts about killing myself. My son was glad to be back in Sweden.I call every day,have organized a meeting with his school's psychologist now in February. My husband saw how I was doing and made the suggestion that we save money so that I could fly over every 6 weeks which I continue doing,but after a week here I become depressive again. This christmas my husband suggested that I should move back to Sweden and visit them instead, which I think is a big sign of love and trust but there are so many other problems.The rudeness is probably my main problem.They scream at each other on a daily basis,my husband threatens to give the children in care,or "suggests" me to "fuck off",his daughter gets fits of rage,the children teasing,kicking and punching each other,his daughter calls me a "bitch"for not letting her taking my laptop into her room.I've been expected to interfere in their fights which stresses me,because I have to be calm,friendly and supportive whilst they can call me names (my husband only sporadically tell them that they are not allowed to call me names. My husband starts often arguments on Facebook or YouTube which a lot of times end in him writing very nasty stuff. Let me explain something that happened today...my husband(and I) are very much into music.There is a festival we are going to every year(with the children) and some girls (not more than 15-16 to judge from the picture)wanted to have an artist coming to the festival that my husband dislikes. He wrote negatively about the artist and I had the audacity to comment his comment by telling the girls that he is "just a grumpy old man,but one of the nicest people you'll know if you have the chance to meet him". He got very angry,called me a hypocrite (because he expects me to read (and tolerate) his comments which I can't if he insults the people he is writing to.He is very intelligent and I told him that he doesn't need to become insulting and that he will always find people who disagree with him .He always argue back that it is them who insult him in first place (which ,in his eyes,gives him the right to "give back") When we have these arguments I usually pull back to our sleeping room.He then laughs with his children,ignores me, until he feels for to come to me and when I tell him that I can't stand this negativity anymore and want to go "home"he tells me that I "give up too easily","that I'm a liar" (because I would not love him) or...if he sees that I really mean to go back starts to cry,tells me how much he loves me and I give in...until next time. He then suggests us to go to a counselor .I am only afraid that he expects her/him to tell me that I am "mental"or schizophrenic". I have never "nagged",know and accepted the mess,let him sit in front of his computer (in "good" moments he tells me that I should tell him to get off the computer,because he forgets about time) but if it is the "wrong moment" he tells me to "shut up". He is a very good cook and he told me that he like to,but his chronically back pain does that I suggested to cook whenever he is in too much pain. If I buy the "wrong" ingredients it will be "pointed out". ("I am not criticizing ,I only point it out"). I really try to keep this letter objective,he has easy to say sorry if he feels that he has done something wrong and I believe him when he says that "I am the best thing to have happened in his life. Also his mother told me,how much he loves me and what a good influence I have on him.He is a carpenter and has done a lot here at home.He also wants surgery for his back now(something he is/was afraid of),because he has the insight that his constant pain makes him grumpy.I am only so tired and stressed,miss my children,feel insecure because of all the negative response and so little appreciation/understanding.

I would really appreciate any comment to my letter....

Stopping the Dysfunction

It has been nearly a year since I have posted. I came to the realization last year that the crazy life I had been living for the past 19 years was getting worse as the years progressed. Partly because my husband would not (or could not) take any steps to change his behavior and save marriage and partly because I kept ignoring the obvious and enabling his behavior.

The longer the marriage or relationship lives, the stronger the dysfunction becomes. The decision to not sacrifice myself any longer was agonizing. The divorce process was sad. Some of his family could not understand how I could be so mean, while others asked what took me so long? After nearly a year of hell, yes separating our lives was hell, I am in a little town house and trying to regain my footing.

When I wonder if I did the right thing - I look at the facts. I am getting my self respect back. I don't have to keep making excuses for his behavior. I don't have to check the bank accounts 2 or 3 times a day to make sure there are no surprises. I am in my own little home and I can afford the mortgage. I have a little savings account. He has nearly spent all of his half of what we had on his whims and wants. He lives in a bedroom at his aunt's house. He has a part time job with no full time prospects (nothing that is out there is exciting enough.) I believe the craziness of his life will unfortunately continue. I love him dearly and it breaks my heart to see, I pray only good for him.

I made the only possible decision I could for myself , but I need to tell you, listen to your gut!! Allowing the ADHD behavior of your loved one to run your life will only cause destruction.

Good luck on your journey,

Again and Again

My heart goes out to you!

I am so glad you posted I am at the point of doing the same, and the guilt is just incredible! Still loving the person makes it so hard because sometimes my husband seems like a lost child and no matter what, he just doesn't get it, the denial he has is overwhelming!

Your post really helped me when you said that you have to look at the facts. I have been caught up in the smoke and mirrors of deception, lies, denial and avoidance, for over 13 years of marriage. I have educated myself and now can see what the ADHD symptoms are and sort them out from whatever else is going on. Melissa made a good point in regards to my post about my husbands decisions to continue behaviors that harm my relationship with him, and our family, he knows these behaviors are tearing our family apart and HE is deciding to continue these behaviors anyway the ADHD is NOT an EXCUSE to make this ok. He has addictions. I feel for you because I know that pain, and it is sad that something that sounds so simple is not.

I have moved out of our bedroom into my home office and told him why I am doing this because of his decision to keep doing this harmful behavior and the fact he is not getting help for it, he has had three months to call a councelor ( we see a marriage councelor too that will not deal with these issues) specializing in ADHD and Addictions to start the healing process but doesn't call says he will but doesn't. He can do whatever he wants but my power is in my ability to make a decision not to tolerate this behavior anymore.

I wonder why this is so heart wrenching? I know its the right thing to do. I caught him lying right before I made this decision, I had the realization that he thinks that he can lie and get me to believe anything WOW! Up to this point looking back over the three months of marriage counceling, and his avoidance to address the addictions yes, I guess he does think I will believe anything he says, because that's what has been happening for over thirteen years, same pattern: he gets caught, I threaten to leave, he lies and says he quit on and on I am lulled into a everything is ok. The really hard thing to deal with is he knows I know he has been lying about his addiction continuing now ( after he swore to me and the councelor he had quit she believed him too ) and why I moved out of the bedroom I was very clear. ( I can't afford to move anywhere else at this time with my daughter ) and he is now convincing himself now that I am just staying out of our bedroom just to get some sleep? Complete denial to a scarry level!

Every time he had been lying to me I knew, in my gut I did, I just wanted to believe he could change as he said he was. If I LOOK at the actions and NOT listen to the words the reality of the situation stays clear. It is not about not doing chores or not completing projects, remembering or any of the ADHD symptoms that are not being treated. This is about the lies and trust issues and he is choosing like your husband chose to continue this harmful behavior and you took a positive course and I hope I am as strong as you are and continue to build a better more stable life. There is no other choice!

Just tears your heart out in the process, but just knowing that there is absolutely nothing you can do to change his behavior, and all you can do change is yours! Like you said, pray for him. Someone else mentioned it is good to pray for the person because it gets rid of the anger towards them and putting them in Gods hand hopefully will ease my guilt too. Good luck and thank you I needed to hear what you said :)

changes what never changes

Melissa, I understand the concept you identify with the paper towel analogy but not the extent. On a weekend we were planning to get together my guy called and asked if I'd be okay with him going away golfing for a week with 8 guys he works with. Though I was disappointed I kept it to myself, said no problem and encouraged him to have a great time. The whole time he was away he kept in close contact by email. He actually went away by invitation of and with an ex-girlfriend and a group of her friends he did not know. He distinctly lied about that before he left and maintained the lie when he got home. She has been a problem in the past. I believe she uses him as a back-up guy. He doesn't see it. On one hand I can see him thinking at the time I'm not doing anything inappropriate with the ex, she's just a friend so it's okay. But, on the other hand he lied so that tells me he had some presence of mind that it wasn't okay. Or, was then being home again the "new moment" and he realizes he's jeopardized "us".

I get really confused trying to understand the line between understanding how his mind works in the moment (I do believe him that nothing inappropriate happened) and what is actually not ADHD; just him behaving badly.

New moment, weeks later, on the way to his Christmas party, I asked if he actually went away with his ex-girlfriend. He readily admitted it, he neither could nor wanted to lie about it. I didn't react strongly but did say I was disappointed and asked why he lied. He said he didn't do anything wrong and didn't want a fight. I felt tension inside and though, we didn't fight, couldn't hide it. He then accused me of wrecking his Christmas party. I actually find him accusing me of wrecking his Christmas party, as bizzarre as it sounds, kind of funny and I'm not being sarcastic. That part I recognize as ADHD and it makes me laugh inside.

What falls into ADHD and what part is not? Just how far does "in the moment" go? It would be easy to say he's just being selfish and doing what he wants. I'm not sure that's it entirely. Though his behaviours can seem selfish I wouldn't describe him as a selfish person. He protects his happiness if that makes sense.

For the record, though he has been secretive about some things I find in appropriate, when asked direct questions I don't think he can lie. The tricky part of that is learning to ask the right questions because his idea of true and mine can be different. Ie. have you ever betrayed me. To him never been intimate with somone else = no. To me flirted behind my back in secret = yes.

What if it's Me Being Unfaithful

What if it's me being Unfaithful to my husband? I haven't never slept with another man in our marriage but I kissed a co-worker once when we first got married and tried to get back with an ex-boyfriend when I left my husband when we were first married. I was faithful to him until recently when I started talking to another ex on Facebook and he found out about that too. Now we are separated. I realize my mistakes after I do them and have always loved him and I know I always will. We have a beautiful daughter together and she also has ADHD. Is there any hope that he can help me change my ways of being unfaithful? Cause I know you said we don't realize our mistakes until after we have already made them, thats why we keep doing the same thing over and over unlike some one who doesn't have ADHD and learns from their mistakes.Or something like that. So can this apply to me too?

Worried79

I don't know if your guy's

I don't know if your guy's behavior can be attributed to ADHD or not. What I do know is that he lied to you and followed-up by accusing you of spreading non-holiday vibes for daring to ask for clarification - thus revealing his lie. The fact that nothing inappropriate happened with his ex is moot. He lied to you. There's no amount of learning to ask the right questions or phrasing questions in the right way that will make his lies OK or that will somehow make him live in truth.

MagicS

Well stated, Magic. Poor

Well stated, Magic. Poor morals and ADHD are separate issues. People who do impulsive things can always make it right afterwards if they have the internal moral standards. If they don't, there's not much to work with.

Changing what never changes

I realize that this comment is in response to a very old post, so probably won't even be read. I just wasn't sure where to post it, and I wanted to share a simple trick that I've figured out. It has been so successful in communicating and coordinating tasks that need to be done with my ADHD husband. I stumbled upon this trick after 12 years of marriage, and have been doing it for about one year, and I actually think it's sort of funny because it's such a small thing. Unfortunately or fortunately (I haven't decided yet), I have a few ADHDers in my life... my husband, my brother, and my son. All are on medication, which helps, but doesn't solve entirely. My husband and son have the same "version" and my brother has the kinder, sweeter version, laced with chronic anger. Actually, their ADHD is really very similar; it's just that my husband lashes out and my son turns it inward, and ultimately struggles with depression until it all comes out in some sort of a crazy outburst.

Anyway... after seeing how well it worked with my 44 year old husband, I tried it with my 37 year old brother, who I am very close with and see frequently. Lo and behold, it worked with him too! I hope it works for others people who find themselves often in the path of another's ADHD hostility, outburst, unawared rudeness or impatience.

What is my simple trick? I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, ask ANY questions. I think questions are perceived by an ADHD person as overwhelming... even when they are simple questions, only asked to show interest or obtain legitimately needed information. I think it relates to their perception of the time/actions that need handling, and I think it really makes them feel bogged down, overwhelmed and stressed out. It's the threat of ANOTHER thing for them to do or keep track of or fail at, and hey reject it at their core.

Since figuring this out, I now kindly tell my husband what I need him to do, and/or tell him what I'm going to do or tell him what I want him to know. It used to really hurt my feelings when I would ask him something so minor, just to make conversation or show an interest in him, such as, "Did you have a good day?" or "Did you come home for lunch or go out?" Typically, he would respond with a big annoyed sigh, roll his eyes and say "What?" in a way to let me know that I was bothering him.... even when it was the first time I'd even spoken with him all day. And he would also typically, hit pause on the tv, and just look at me totally pissed off like he was waiting for me to stop wasting his time. I would then leave and avoid him like the plague for the rest of the night.

Even when I would text one single, simple question to coordinate family/household things, he would either not respond at all or respond in an obviously annoyed, long-winded way, spending a bunch of time texting me a long text about how busy he is, and he has no time to respond to "all of my questions".

When I need to ask him something, I just rephrase it into a statement, and that works really well too. For example, I might say (or text him), "I'm wondering what time and where the boys have to be at soccer" or, "I wish I knew where the family camera went." Then, guess what happens.... It truly is AMAZING!! He answers the question like a normal human being, respectfully, informative, and appropriately.

After almost 13 years of marriage to my husband and 37 years of being my brother's sister, that's the only trick I've learned. But, it's worth its weight in gold in dealing with ADHD men... at least the ones in my family.

Great post. I have just begun

Great post. I have just begun to learn this too... Dh won't ever get if i state anything about myself (wishes, concerns) but when it is phrased as a statement on anything else, i notice he will address it. Can you put the curtains up? No. (Vs) that window needs a curtain. OK. (Puts it up)

also, instead of reasoning with him during his fits of anger, i have been saying to the effect: That is your anger and you are entitled to own it. But i certainly will not take on that burden, no sir and goodbye. Basically i extricate immediately and leave him alone with his anger. Most often, he comes back later in a calmer mood.

Trying to reason, to show anything or discuss anything on the spur of the moment is nearly impossible. It just doesn't penetrate because it is not coming from within himself, just cannot place himself in another person's shoes to address it (unfortunately this precludes us from discussing any plans for travel, the kids' future, visiting my family, unless he brings it up which is virtually never i have been unable to voice any of these things as a statement). I have noticed tho, he will always listen to a THIRD PARTY. His boss suggested he take us to the ballgame as his boss was going to be there, and he couldnt get us to the ballpark fast enough. A colleague suggested he had adhd, and that is when dh decided to seek help. Not sure why this is, but he will definitely accept suggestions coming from third parties.

I have said for years that i

I have said for years that i cannot ask my H a question, and it drives me crazy. If i start any statement as a question i get defensive answers, no matter how simple the question may be...'what store are you going to?'..is met with either a defensive/angry reply or a response that does really answer the question... i.e. "Out". I have always wondered why can he not just answer a simple question ? Its like everything is a secret... I have tried to not start sentences with "why', or 'what' because those are automatic defensive reply starters... sometimes you need to ask a question though.. "Can you pick the boys up after soccer?' he may get ticked off because he says he heard 'pick the boys up after soccer'...ARGH...what is it with asking a question

ADHD and Marriage: Changing What Never Changes

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