Your partnership includes too many lies – big and small. In three previous posts I’ve written about why this is happening, and how this hurts your relationship. ADHD – and responses to ADHD – can certainly play a role. So what to do? Here are 9 strategies for ending in your relationship:
Get out of parent/child dynamics. The chances that your partner is going to cover up increase exponentially if that partner thinks he or she might ‘get into trouble’ for not following up, forgetting, being late, or doing something impulsive. Since these things are common when you have ADHD, the impulse to cover up is great. But take away the ‘getting in trouble’ part of this dynamic, and the urge to lie diminishes. Reward ADHD partners for transparency by being empathetic to ADHD symptomatic issues, while continuing to seek the best ways the two of you can structure your lives to minimize the impact of ADHD on you both.
Learn ‘conflict intimacy’ skills. In my self-study seminar, Recovering Intimacy in Your Relationship, I help couples develop the ability to converse about difficult topics non-aggressively and listen non-defensively. This skillset, called ‘conflict intimacy’ is critical for building trust and strengthening connection and intimacy between you. The stronger your connections, the less likely lying will occur in your relationship.
Optimize treatment for ADHD. There is a good deal of research available about the most effective ways to manage ADHD symptoms (find out what they are in my free chapter downloads for The Couple’s Guide to Thriving with ADHD). When the ADHD partner better manages ADHD, he or she becomes more reliable in the relationship – relieving pressure to cover up or lie in order to ‘please’ the other partner. In addition, managing ADHD rebuilds self-esteem – another factor in the fight against lies. Furthermore, it helps to line up ‘target symptoms’ with areas in your life that lead to lying (for example, lying around impulsive spending.)
Keep a lying journal. For the person who is lying and trying to move beyond lying, it can help to keep an online journal (password protected!!) to reflect on when you lied, and why. This can help you track patterns. Note when you were not completely truthful, and why, with questions such as ‘what did I fear when I lied?’ ‘Who was I lying to?’ ‘What was the topic?’ and more. Alternately, an individual therapist can help you explore these same questions.
Make failure a positive in your relationship. Set up your relationship so that it’s GOOD to fail when trying something new to manage ADHD or learning how to manage symptoms. Failure is often both proof of trying and a way to learn how to improve in the future. If failing is okay, and ADHD is simply an open (not heavily ‘loaded’) topic, then the urge to lie lessens dramatically.
Take charge of your financial planning. Lying around money is common in relationships impacted by ADHD. Be proactive in setting up a financial system that works for you both. Often, that means a non-ADHD partner takes charge of bill paying, since this requires repeated drudgery! Some couples use multiple accounts to regulate how much money is available for an impulsive ADHD partner to spend.
Check for, and treat, addictions. Some lying is actually about addictions, and rates of addiction are higher in those with ADHD than those without. Lying about gambling, alcohol, drugs, spending, pornography, sex, and more can really be more about addictive lack of control. If this is what’s going on in your relationship, get appropriate addiction help from a professional and, perhaps, by joining a 12-step program.
Work with a professional. Even if addiction is not an issue, it still often can help to work with a professional counselor to rebuild the trust that has been destroyed through lying.
Trust, but verify. To recover from really big lies (affairs, financial malfeasance, etc.) it helps to really stay on top of the lying partner for a transition period. Talk with a counselor and/or your partner about ways that you might be able to verify that the issue is cleaned up and stays cleaned up.
Want to read more about lying? Here are three more blog posts on the topic:
ADHD, Lying and All that Stuff
- MelissaOrlov's blog
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Comments
Contradictions re: parent/child dynamic
The first bullet point says to get out of parent/child dynamic. But so many of the other bullet points reinforce parent/child dynamic. The non-ADHD partner takes over the money and gives the ADHD partner an allowance? The non-ADHD partner has to "stay on top of" the ADHD partner in order to build trust?
These parentify the non-ADHD partner.
Can you address these contradictions? I feel like this site used to be a lot more self-responsibility-oriented, and lately the content slants toward placing all responsibility on the non-ADHD partner. When I first visited this site years ago, I was so relieved to find a site that told ADHD partners that managing their disease was *their* responsibility, and that they had to take responsibility of the way that their ADHD behaviors were hurting their partners. The site has changed a LOT. Now all the top-level content/blog posts involve the non-ADHD partners managing the ADHD partner, or are filled with regard for their feelings and not ours.
@attheendofmyrope
I thought the exact same thing reading this! Don't make them feel you're their mom but manage the money give them an allowance and don't show any negativity when they fail. How about when all the money is hone and your mortgage electricity etc is due? I'm suppose to come to my husband calmly and non judging and find out why we don't have money to pay our bills while he made frivolous impulsive purchases.
Ah yes cristy,...it does
appear that way and it will be that way when the adhd spouse IS in denial or giving it a half assed effort.
What Melissa is referring to is you both as a unit learning to work together. That is why THIS is not doable when there isn't a cohesive EFFORT on BOTH parties.
Adhd is NOT a PASS and until BOTH of you understand how it effects "things" you can't begin to fix it. So many of the non-adhd spouses are here because THEY( and I am one) are "dealing" with their circumstances which involve some form of denial on their adhd partners part. Many have invested YEARS into the relationship and have only discovered the "issue" of late.
I myself, discovered that through my entire marriage....I had no boundaries. Adhd or not.........every person has to have boundaries.
Take a deep breath......take stock of yourself.....learn about Adhd. It will help you understand your H's behavior.......Like I said before.....you cannot have your marriage alone......it means the BOTH of you. If your H blows the seriousness of this off......you will have to decide what is best for you..........I know you love him ......I love my H too(for 43 years) but I will no longer "go to the cross" for him. I have become a selfish person......sigh
Boiling Frog Principle Zapp
I can give one perspective I have....coming from a place or starting over...more than once. If you have never had to start over from scratch....and have been in one relationship where this has happened to you...it really is the boiling Frog effect.....it's so slow a process and it happens over time...you don't realize you are being boiled to death....until you are already right at that point. And if that's where you are....it is really difficult...to undo this process since it has been established and in place for so long....it has become engrained into the relationship.
Since I have started over....more than once....you begin to recognize the signs early....in order to start to intervene in the process before it gets too far. That in itself....gets to be an arduous task...with someone who is insistent....with going down this path and will stubbornly resist you at every turn.
This just came up in my T's office again...as I was describing how difficult this is to do now....with my wife. As he put it to me..."the only thing you can do...when she is swinging back and forth like a pendulum....is remain steadfast and grounded right in the middle...and hold you ground and not so swinging along with the pendulum each time it changes direction going back and forth. This is the roller coaster effect....but I think he is more accurate in referring to it as a pendulum...swinging back and forth.
If you are not grounded yourself....and solid and stead fast....you'll start swinging with them...and becoming that selfish person in a tit for tat kind of way.
I know...I've failed myself at times to stay grounded and solid and have failed to do what my T said. But as I was saying this too him....her reaffirmed that this is what I need to do and plant myself rooted to the ground...and not follow my wife's leads down any rabbit holes she's heading into.
You can forgive yourself....first.....for not realizing this or following their lead. It's only natural to do this and not try and join them which is exactly what you shouldn't do.
And I will say this to make sure you know....that my ADHD symptoms do come into play here. They may insite my wife to start the pendulum swinging....but they aren't responsible for the pendulum in themselves.
When someone is blaming you for "everything"....this is not possible. I'm only responsible for what I'm responsible for......I'm not responsible for anything my wife does as a response since I'm not in denial...and have been open, up front and honest about my symptoms right from the get go even though.....I am now understanding the "effect" has more wide reaching consequences for my wife. Even then....I do not deny them or make excuses for them and try and take this into account for the way my wife feels sometimes.
What does not account for my ADHD symptoms contributing to my wife's pendulum swings ...is her unwillingness to work with me on them like I ask her too. There is such a thing...as finding yourself in a situation of any kind....and just not liking it or would rather....not have it be that way even if it is due to circumstance beyond anyones control. My wife has her own denial....that what she doesn't want....exists...but looks away from and pretends it doesn't. She is denial....of what...she doesn't like or wants to see but yet....it's they're....but pretends its not. That's not working with someone.....that pretending it doesn't exist even when you are showing them that it does...and not trying to put the blame on anything else.
I really understand why this is so hard after finding yourself in a situation you could not predict and no one knew anything and it just evolves into this situation. And now.....what are you going to do about it? Un-boiling the Frog after so much time...is a difficult thing I can imagine.
I expected to a certain degree...that this wouldn't be the case when you explain this to them ahead of time in a very informative way so they will be armed and ready to a certain degree....with some of that education ahead of time. But even though you may cognitively understand something....doesn't prepare you for what it's like in reality to live it...for "real". It's that kind of "reality" that you can't really prepare for even if you know what to expect.
I expected that the educational information that I told my wife ahead of time before we got married....to make a difference and to a lessor degree it did. The boiling Frog never got into the pot....but keeping it out of the pot and not letting turning the flame on....is still an exhausting process...just to keep that from happening anyway. My symptoms will always be there to a certain degree...and the more subtle effect even without any major dysfunction happening....are still having their effect and my wife's behavior is one that says....she has yet learned how to deal with them...even though she understands what it is...and I tell her straight up.
The biggest issue I think....no matter which side you're on....is pretending or not wanting something that is there....not to be there....and looking away as if it doesn't exist. Denial comes in many forms and they are equally difficult and damaging to a relationship.
If you aren't dealing or coping with what is...and wishing it weren't there....or are you are pretending or acting as if there isn't a problem and looking for ways for it to all go away...when in reality, this is not even possible...then that's looking for answers that don't exist either that will do nothing but make you lose hope since nothing will ever become of it.
The only way to deal with reality....is to meet it head on and not be afraid of it. What is...is not going away...so best to learn to deal with what is....instead of looking for ways to make it all go away in the hope that this is somehow possible which it's not. That's just magical thinking and denial as a defense from seeing the reality you don't want yourself.
J
Denial can also consist of
Denial can also consist of refusing to accept that you cannot control another person's behavior.
Yep That's Right
It's my mantra....as my T has engrained in my head.... "make nothing you do...contingent on anyone else"
It doesn't mean...you have to like it...which right now....I don't. Mostly....I remain silent...deal with it,cope, and just watch and pay attention. It's all you can do. I just don't allow anything my wife does...to stray me off course...or control me, most importantly.
J
Water Sign
When I looked up my Astrological profile recently...I noticed I am a "Water Sign". Without reading anything more into this from the actually definition.... I wondered about this and have come to this conclusion. I am like water. I fit into any vessel or adapt easily....almost effortlessly to any situation, environment or person I am with. I am a Chameleon in that sense....and by nature....adapting and being flexible has always been the case for me....like I'm made of rubber. I can flex and move quite easily to adapt as needed. This is a very good quality to have...unless someone takes advantage of it. I'm easily manipulated unfortunately because of this. And when that happens...it makes me really angry.
My wife is like she is made of stone that is cemented into the ground. She doesn't dig in...she doesn't move. Moving a heavy rock in a metaphoric way...requires a great deal of effort on her part. I on the other hand...move until I see what is happening with someone who takes advantage of it. When that happens in the past....I dig in and get very stubborn myself.
Becoming a rock...instead of water....goes against my nature to be that way. It is the hardest thing I can possibly think of doing and it feels very unnatural to me to do so. I am out of my element..to become a rock but this is what I need to do. I do not want to do it. I need to do it and learning the skills to do this without digging in and being stubborn....is what "make nothing you do....contingent on anyone else" is all about.
I'd rather be water. Water is my element. To become a rock and not move...is a difficult thing to master.
J
You sound very committed to
You sound very committed to both your partner and loving yourself. Upon reflection of others insightful perspectives here, my perspective (based on wholeness and some co-dependency) is that, while nature's don't change...up to date conditioning can provide moments to find deeper appreciation of the other. And, when we get (me this moment) that this isn't about our spouse but about seeing (reflected in the other) what we need to bring to our daily living --more peaceful existence with what is. Certainly in a good relationship, what it isn't comes up. Anne Curry tweeted a quote, "when I see that I am nothing, this is wisdom and when I see that I am everything, this is love". The greatest debate in science points for me to the bigger picture in all this...selfishly, this draws me more into this stardust of mystery. I'm getting closer to releasing this body into the 'unknown' so IF I can see my nature as an air sign with my water sign wife, I'll be much less a "crab". They'll be less unproductive time taken in my "solid stances".
MarriageBselfish4Wholeness
Thanks tcrane......This is Really It...Isn't It?
I've never had a problem with commitment or being a loyal friend. You can't count on me...to remember to take the garbage out on garbage day...or remember to clean up a mess from something I've started....but you can always count of me to be there, especially when the chips are down. I've never been one to to back down from a fight or run for cover when things aren't going well...to my own detriment at times? Learning to let go of this..is a difficult thing to do. A little ODD from my childhood that needs some "cleaning out the cob webs" I think but mostly...I avoid conflict like the plague! Loving yourself enough...without having that chip there and crossing the line is what I'm learning how to do much better than in my past?
But low be it....if anyone messes with my friends or my wife or anyone who I Love and care about? I might say all kinds of things in critical ways about my wife and my own family as a means to vent my frustrations at times like anyone else. But if you want to see me come to life...watch what happens when someone else disrespects anyone that matters to me (in the reality of the real world outside the internet ) because that shit just doesn't fly in my world because they matter that much to me. When I'm in....I'm in all the way and there's no sitting on the fence for very long even when that might happen? I have a strong case of....I got your back....when the chips are down and there a real problem coming straight at you and I'm a good person to have rowing in your boat.....despite all my lessor qualities that have to do with my ADHD?
I really think this co-dependent dance that we find ourselves in at times....comes straight from what I mentioned to you before. "Nature abhors a vacuum." And when theres dead space to fill....the tendency is to fill that space with something and this is where things get so out of balance?
Dependency, enabling, compensating, over compensating and trying to fill in all the holes and gaps...is really just fear more than anything....filling in the dead spaces? All that does is lead to conflict and there's really no reason for it as far as I can see? I think the reason it happens is out of fear...and fear is not a good motivator to do anything for anyone. It only makes you insecure and this is really at the heart of co-dependency I think? Fear, insecurity...and feeling vulnerable and being afraid?
If you could get rid of the fear....there would be no insecurity when you're feeling vulnerable and that is only a good thing? Vulnerability as Brene Brown stated in her video about shame "is the key to empathy"...and as she remarked you can 't really have empathy with it?
So if you put fear into being vulnerable....this is not the path that leads to empathy at all? I think it only leads to anger, resentment and selfishness.....so what do we do with it instead.....we run from being vulnerable because we're afraid..and we accuse the person we're with for making us afraid?
And as we all know.....you can't "make someone afraid" Just like another person...can't "make you angry". "But they made me angry...that's why I had to hit them!!! " Sorry....that's just not how it works. Either you are afraid...or you not? No one "made you" that way.
In reality...the only thing that can make you afraid is fear...right? Fear of commitment...is just being afraid of it yourself? Either you're all the way in...or you're just afraid and fear...will do strange things to you and play tricks on you...if you're not careful and not doing something about you fears.
There was this really funny Japanese fellow that use to work for my father. He had really broken English but he was very nice to me when I was a kid and hanging around in the shipping room in the basement where he worked. I can still hear him to this day...because he had this thing he would always say in his broken English way when ever the people upstairs would screw up or make his job harder ( forget something like address the package or what ever? )
He'd get all worked up in the moment and go..."Oooooooooooo....dey mak - a -me...soooooooooo Angry!!!!!" and then he turn to me with a big smile on his face and that was it. And all you could do was laugh because this was so funny to hear him do this because he was such a nice pleasant fellow and very likeable.
And after this...he was right back where he left off a only moments before. That's what I'm talking about!!! It's Okay to be angry, hurt, upset or what have you...for 60 seconds or less? ( with no fear or being afraid...when that's the case? )
He had it down to less than 5 seconds...by the time he finished saying it? He's my role model here....I'm working on it but I've got a little ways to go yet to be a good with this as he was? He wasn't afraid of getting angry or showing that he was...and he was also not afraid of letting it go and not fearing what ever got to this place since....it happened every time I was there and he was never in a bad mood and always seemed to be at peace (aside from those 5 seconds or less :)
J
ADHD spouse
My wife and partner of over 30 years has echo-ed your sentiments repeatedly. There are no groups for Adults with ADHD or couple's thru our provider. The significant of this issue cannot be over-emphasized given the degree of pain (and love shared) here. I'm grateful to hear your voice (non-ADHD) spouses voices, on this blog because, as it is a slippery slope---your comments--it is a strong indicator of "the reals". My deepest hope is that you not stop communicating. Finally after many mutual efforts to find a therapist well versed in my needs and issues not only listened to my wife but it has...for the better...informed changes in my medication protocol and given me more time to try to address my issues more proactively.
Its taken a very long road to bring voice to this website, has it not?
Let us continue to see repeated moments amidst our most difficult times 'fresh insights and kindness". War buddies" (Bernie Siegel and his wife referred to their marriage in a keynote address and workshop).
Why this forum matters to me? Keeping a sense of community is essential, in my view, and these major schisms you refer to play out with others (couple's frriends, etc.). As I write this, we're in one of these difficulties and I don't say schisms (fingers crossed).
I write this as my mentor is coping with a very life threatening situation...my wife introduced me to him as his wife and mine had known each other well over 30 years. Also, another friend of my wife's for this long as well helped me clean and sort out my "overwhelming" storage unit and boxes endless boxes of my "what ifs" (she calls play"#)...over the past 4-5 years. Our marriage would very likely not have continued due to my accumulated messes stress (now tx issues) over 18 years commuting and working with very poor kids (families).
This very same friend of my wifes, with my wife's suggestion, enabled us to job share as social workers so that I could get access into a school district which had been the most rewarding job of my life. Also, my wfe's friend...as my wife, have sequencing skills that have kept me functionally competent. AND, as this blog and website illumine, to quote Charlie Rich..."no one (really) knows what goes on behind closed doors".
My wife has sacrifed too many late evenings with this job and has also been not only my best friend but also co-counselor (she raised two amazing men as a single mom and 97 percent of the families I worked with were from single headed household's.
Please continue expressing! I have been an ass so many moments. I have owned my issues and, while regretfully not enough, my shame blame cycles...which the mafia of the mind masterfully conjures up from the past (while useful as reference) is destructive.
May I remember more moments that "tenderly we all may too soon part; and metaphorically may we all sing with outragous (and mature)laughter Charlie's song.
MarriageBselfish4Wholeness
Lying just ADHD or more?
I'm having trouble believing my spouse is just lying because of his ADHD. I'm at a point where I believe he's a pathological liar. I just discovered two days ago for three and a half years he hasn't had a job!!! He has done a few projects here and there for his dad who owns his business but he has told me this entire time he worked there full time. I also believe he's been using his well off grandmother to get money to keep his monthly earnings at a level to keep me believing he worked full time. (He cuts her grass and does other projects but she's paying him way more than market value for those services) He had told his parents he was teaching at a private school and I was believing he was working for his dad. He has told me he has a degree in history and received a teaching certificate from a college I'm now currently employed at. I've looked him up in our system and there's no record of him. I discovered the teaching certificate over a year ago and when I brought it to his attention he just kept telling more lies about how he's not in there because he was just getting a certificate which I told him was not possible. Then later it turned into he actually got his certification somewhere else. This man has lied and told me he has multiple sclerosis, lied about numerous things he was going to do or buy for me (which I don't care about but don't tell me something is going to happen that's not going to) Every time he tells me he's got me something I'm just like yeah sure whatever. The craziest part is you'll confront him with the evidence and he will cling onto his lie... I'm about to lose my mind. I'm seeing a counselor but I've been deceived so badly I really believe I will never ever fully trust him and I can't have a spouse I do not trust. I love him I truly do but all of his lies and deceit are physically making me sick. I'm constantly stressed out and always feel like I'm a detective trying to get to the bottom of all of his falsehoods. There were red flags of severe lying in our courtship but he's such a good and mastered liar it was hard to see at times and I think in some ways I let myself believe what I wanted to believe- stupid I know but it's hard to really fathom until you're in a situation like this. I can handle his ADHD symptoms attention issue, impulsivity, and not following through at times and being distracted but I can NOT and will NOT be lied to over and over again and be expected to be okay with this behavior it's not healthy for me or anyone involved! I believe he's at a point where it's easier for him to lie than to tell the truth and this really frightens me, it's become a part of him and is his survival mechanism and I'm not sure there's true help for this severity of lying. Maybe with years of psychotherapy maybe but I don't know if I have the strength to stay on this hellacious rollercoaster. I'm emotionally, and mentally exhausted!
Thanks for your insights:
Thanks for your insights: Running from feeling vulnerable is so right on (and right now my koan what I am seeing as another friend just told me on the phone of a lump awaiting biopsy, a brother a mild heart attack). How do I be vulnerable now with this edge, instead of raising my voice to my wife over something stupid rather than face this sadness squarely.
I want to compost more the depth of the comments you made (italicized) below. For now, "dependency, enabling, compensating, over compensating (is) more fear than anything" is so true. I've recently had 'some' moments of clearly seeing these aspects of myself, seeing as they arise, re-visiting when I was 6-8 years of age and these patterns began. So, without regressing or indulging in this awareness, I have been doing small things differently in 'a few moments' when they arise. And, there have been "some of these few moments" where there has been not only rest but abiding calm and ease. Wow, getting the connection I want vs. pushing away thru projections. And, in even fewer of these few moments...I speak proactively what I need (or slow down the overcompensating doings that are more out of duty and fear). In stopping a bit sooner or really paying attention to the order of requests my wife is making, I actually see in more moments it is reasonable (or more easily negotiable) rather than the poor habit of raised voice of burden at 'overwhelming lists'.
I am fortunate because I'm not 'working' presently so the extensive few of the fews is intentional because being warmly OK with the tiniest change opens up more curiosity than listening or engaging the familiar recordings that are outdated. The contrast of these tiny changes, if I reflect upon them, is extraordinary (extraordinary ordinary in relationship.
And, I'm taking a DBT group (class) and the mindfulness exercises and discussions with others my age or older~~are both efficient and I think (over time) will provide more of these moments of clarity. While I totally concur with Melissa's suggestions about "mindfulness" classes, I must own that (having been a self righteous social worker for many years, I thought I knew this stuff~ha!).
(Your comments for composting) "I really think this co-dependent dance that we find ourselves in at times....comes straight from what I mentioned to you before. "Nature abhors a vacuum." And when theres dead space to fill....the tendency is to fill that space with something and this is where things get so out of balance?
Dependency....All that does is lead to conflict and there's really no reason for it as far as I can see? I think the reason it happens is out of fear...and fear is not a good motivator to do anything for anyone. It only makes you insecure and this is really at the heart of co-dependency I think? Fear, insecurity...and feeling vulnerable and being afraid?
If you could get rid of the fear....there would be no insecurity when you're feeling vulnerable and that is only a good thing? Vulnerability as Brene Brown stated in her video about shame "is the key to empathy"...and as she remarked you can 't really have empathy with it?
So if you put fear into being vulnerable....this is not the path that leads to empathy at all? I think it only leads to anger, resentment and selfishness.....so what do we do with it instead.....we run from being vulnerable because we're afraid..and we accuse the person we're with for making us afraid?
MarriageBselfish4Wholeness
I Applaud You for Doing What You're Doing.... tcrane
Your questioning????? This is a good thing. That bit you mentioned about regression? Boy...when I really started to question things and look at myself and all the things I was doing....every time I saw something I didn't like....there was regression involved. There's a clue for you...and it's never easy to look at? It takes some courage and being able to admit that in the way you're doing and I know for one.....it ain't easy!! LOL
This is the the conundrum that I'm facing with my wife and that has to do with her attachment style. Avoidant / Dismissive ( as an insecure attachment....fear again...it's right in there for sure ) folks are the least likely ( and most resistant?? ) to want to look back at their childhoods and the pattern itself ( to dismiss things as irrelevant ) seems to have a tendency ...to go in one ear...and out the other and then not remember because it never makes it in there long enough...to get filed in the memory banks? That's just my take on it...based on what I understand and have read? But this is really problem...if going back and looking at yourself in the past....and comparing what you do now...and noticing regression as it happens ....or even later?
My personal theory on this...because I am really invested in it now since my wife has her issues with denial and all that goes with it. Being able to do what your doing ( and I have done myself ) seems to be the only way to see yourself better....and notice these things in the first place?
I can be thankful....that how ever it played out with me and all the bad things I might remember.....I also remember a lot of great moments and good times too and my attitude is.....take the good with the bad...and learn from it and become better in the future? I think when you can do this....the future only looks good from here?
J