Do you think your ADHD partner is a narcissist? If so, you would not be alone - the question of narcissism comes up regularly - usually asked by non-ADHD partners who believe that their ADHD partner is unfeeling, selfish and self-centered. But while it's easy to label someone who comes across as self-centered as a narcissist, the truth may be a bit more complicated than that.
I write this post after a specific question from a man with ADHD, and a request that I provide him advice to be able to sort out whether or not his issues were ADHD or narcissism. My observation is that people with ADHD are very 'inwardly-focused' - that is, there is a lot going on inside their head, and so they spend a good deal of time there trying to get it under control, or just following the many interesting 'paths' they find there. This leads to ignoring the needs of others around them (i.e. they are so inside themselves that others don't get much attention...) In addition, people with ADHD have a lower ability to read emotional/physical cues from others. These things combined leads to the experience of non-ADHD partners to be one of feeling that their ADHD partner is narcissistic, when in fact what they are is very chronically distracted. The accusations of lack of empathy often come after some period of relationships disintegration...where an ADHD partner may have retreated from his or her partner to avoid conflict or hardened their attitude in response to feeling repeatedly pushed or complained about.
If this describes your own situation, then the way to deal with it is to acknowledge that this inward-focus is a problem/tendency you have, and that your partner's complaints about your being self-centered are based in her (his?) experience of being with you...the complaints are both logical and related to your ADHD, even if the label chosen is incorrect. Once you acknowledge that your partner's experience is poor and stop worrying about the label, then you can address the symptomatic behaviors that create that experience - in this case, being so often inwardly-focused. There are many ways to do this:
- better physiological treatment that calms your brain and makes it less important to be looking inward (meds, exercise, fish oil, sleep and meditation or mindfulness are your best bets here)
- creating scheduled times to be with your partner and focused on your partner ('attend time' - see my second book, The Couple's Guide to Thriving with ADHD for more on this)
- creating the habit of clearing away distractions when your partner tries to communicate particularly important information to you. One tactic for this might be creating a verbal cue together...if it's really important, she can say "I have something important I wish to share, and I would love your full attention to it" or some such...that could be the cue to move away from distractions such as the computer, sit together, and look her in the eye)
- improved organizational skills - possibly using a coach to help with this. Though organization isn't directly tied to narcissism, it is often tied to non-ADHD partners feeling their ADHD partners are selfish...i.e. they only think about themselves rather than contribute to taking care of responsibilities. Often lack of follow through for those with ADHD is more related to poor symptom management around organizational skills rather than self-centeredness
The fact that the man writing to me was grappling with the idea of narcissism suggested to me that he may not, in fact, have the issue. Here's and excerpt from the Psychology Today definition of NPD:
"Narcissistic Personality Disorder involves arrogant behavior, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration-all of which must be consistently evident at work and in relationships. People who are narcissistic are frequently described as cocky, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding...Narcissists tend to have high self-esteem. However, narcissism is not the same thing as self-esteem; people who have high self-esteem are often humble, whereas narcissists rarely are. It was once thought that narcissists have high self-esteem on the surface, but deep down they are insecure. However, the latest evidence indicates that narcissists are actually secure or grandiose at both levels." (You can find the full definition at this link.)
While this may not be the case with the man who wrote, my observation is that many with ADHD do, in fact, have self-esteem issues caused by their experiences growing up with ADHD - specifically the criticisms and unpredictable failures they faced due to their symptoms. Few are "secure or grandiose at both levels."
So, can ADHD trigger narcissism? I don't believe so. But the inward-focus and lack of follow through so common to people with ADHD can easily be interpreted as being malevolently self-centered when misunderstood. Follow the ideas I've put in the bullets above, and I hope that complaints about narcissistic behavior may start to melt away.
- MelissaOrlov's blog
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Comments
Narcissistic
what happens when your ADD spouse was described as having narcissistic tendencies by a therapist before you even thought about that possibility? When you look at the traits and realize they were raised by parents who exhibited those same traits? And while we are at it, let's throw some OCD on top as icing on the cake.
How did I get myself into this?
ADD and Sociopathic Tendencies
Hello, I'd first like to thank you so much for the work you've done to help people (like me) with ADD. I've actually been successful at committing a lot of my life to discipline (thank God) so reading your book recently was illuminating as to just how much ADD affects me. I've been particularly comforted that it's not just me who feels like a sociopath sometimes. This is the most terrifying thing I've ever faced. I'm currently engaged and in love with my fiancee, but my tendency towards emotional coldness is starting to spread to our relationship. I thought she would be protected from it. She's perfect and has never done anything to deserve it, but I have a disgusting ability to be completely blank in my affection or emotion towards her - as if she was a stranger or just a book I picked up or any other insignificant input. However, this is certainly not always the case. I identify with what a lot of people I've read about have been saying. They're highly emotionally intelligent with a high-level of cognitive compassion/empathy. They easily understand what others are going through, their behavior, and what they are thinking. But this doesn't translate most of the time into any emotional connection. In fact, my fiancee is the only person I feel emotionally connected too or empathetic towards on a regular basis. The idea of causing her pain repulses me and that's what's been so terrifying about my more recent coldness. I feel like she's walking into a trap! I don't have control over it. I try to force my mind into compassion by doing something sacrificial (sports are also HUGE in getting out of my own head) but it only does so much. Furthermore, I feel trapped into hiding it, because I'm afraid she'll be scared off by the extent of it! I worry too that my intense need for stimulant isn't going to be met by this relationship even though that's what I want for the both of us. Please help!
Some Things to Relalize Anonymous1776
I can hear myself in your fears but I can tell you a few things that I have come to learn that might help ease your mind a little. First....I have had direct experience with a bona-fide Narcissist(s) (2) who leaned towards the Anit-Social category at times (or Sociopath). It is an experience that defies description in that it defies mostly what you know about yourself or human behavior. It is in all respects...out of the norm and not just chronic...but never changing. It is in every respect...highly consistent and predictable. The lack of empathy is not just a lack...but non existent....that's a clue for you right there.
But you can't tell just from meeting one or even just being causally acquainted with one because they can fake it and Fein it very well to mask it but over time....they can't keep this up indefinitely....eventually, it shows and in more ways than one. If it serves them to hide...they will. If it doesn't....they don't care. That may look like it's inconsistent in the same way you describe yourself (and most people with ADHD ie: consistently, inconsistent) but you don't know what is actually going on inside....this is just what it looks like from the outside.
Inside.....it's very consistent and never changing. It's one of those things that you have to be around long enough to notice these things. The word "exploitive" is the best one I can think of to describe it. From the receiving end of this...it doesn't just make you feel taken advantage of...but used. I think this in itself does not define it but it is one of a list of things that need to all be there in order for it to fall into that category. The fact that you're worried about it and even talking about it as Melissa mentioned is a sign that your not a Sociopath or a Narcissist.
What is more accurate is what she mentioned about being inwardly focused on yourself at times and becoming disconnected at times...but then at other time you aren't. That has more to do with the same thing and not being consistently engaged all of the time. Frankly....it is directly tied to anxiety and fear (in a more compulsive way) and just trying to manage them. When that happens...your field of view and others emotions and needs can get pretty narrow when you become more worried about your internal crisis going on inside instead of paying attention to others. Big difference right there.
I found it interesting what Melissa wrote here about Narcs not being insecure or have deep seated insecurity issues that are being covered up by a an exterior that says otherwise. My T explained this a bit differently saying it is the latter of the two (with deep seated insecurity) but.....my experience tells me otherwise and is more in agreement with Melissa's assessment. I'm not in a position to argue either way but my original experiences and what I am describing fit what she said more than my T.
Asking you some questions that are pointing out the difference as I saw it. If you don't answer pretty much all of these by saying "yes'...then you can put your fears to rest as far as being a Sociopath in any way.
Do your get outraged when you are not the center of attention and feel the need to over power or "one up" everyone?
Do you feel the need to constantly put others beneath you and feel you are special and deserve special consideration?
Do you feel intense rage when anyone attempts to dismiss you or "attempts" to put you beneath them? In turn....are you always dismissive and angry because you don't feel like you are getting what you deserve? If you're entitled and think you are special....no one will ever fit the bill for you and you will always feel deprived and live feeling that you never get your needs met ever. This kind of out rage or rage in not from feeling hurt ...but more from self righteous indignation that anyone "Dare" such a thing. The "Queens We" here....."We thinks....we are bored with this creature... Off with (it's) head!" Notice the Freudian slip "it's" instead of he/she.
Another good one from the movie Silence of the Lambs..... "It puts the lotion on it's skin"...in an overt example. What I said....not just taken advantage of on occasion or in more rare moments....but used and exploited for their own self interest without a second of hesitation. Indifference to an extreme with no remorse or guilt if it serves their own self interest.
But here's the deal here....they can still be moral in respect to social norms....but not on a personal level even if they follow the rules of society. When it comes to personal boundaries of others....they decide always at will (which may change on a daily basis depending on them and how they feel they need them to be at any given moment and change just as fast based solely on them....others are not allowed any. That in itself would be a violation to someone like this.
To reiterate this yet another way.....most anyone can pick out moments in others and themselves when they might exhibit one or more of these qualities at different times which is normal since everyone is like this sometimes even if not to this extreme. No one is perfect. The difference is....a person who suffers from this kind of thing doesn't suffer at all. They don't worry, are not Neurotic, aren't particularly afraid if anyone likes them or not and are mostly completely indifferent and even proud and arrogant about being this way. Truly....nothing is wrong with me because I am just fine like this....in fact....I like being this way and proud of it.
If you see most everyone as inferior to you....why would it bother you what others think about you and why would you worry? But ironically....anyone you see as possibly "better than you" in some way you hate and treat them with callous disregard and disdain.
This paradox is telling.....at that point....you don't respect those you see as less than you so you exploit them by going after their weaknesses that you despise (they deserve to be exploited because you revile them.....but in turn....you hate anyone you see as "better" or having "more" than you and are only envious of them and shun them. So pretty much.....you don't like or respect anyone....and are outraged if anyone crosses you or stands in your way. That's it right there
And not forgetting......
Are you extremely stingy, miserly and self centered in this way all the time?
Are you extremely vindictive and feel the need to punish others who have slighted you? (all the time...any time it happens)
I think in order to qualify in this classification of disorders or even the tendency to be this way....you have to have ALL of these things consistently All of the time with few exceptions. Those would be the exception not the rule to not be this way.
So if this describes you.....then I would worry. But the fact that you worry and are concerned in the first place pretty much disqualifies you right there without taking this any further. I hope that helps you see that your worst fears are probably only that...but it doesn't mean you don't have to work on being empathetic or have compassion when you get too inwardly focused and some of these symptoms might emerge from time to time. It's not from being a Narc but it's still is something to pay attention to.
And before I forget....a Narc might see themselves like you are doing for even a moment....but as soon as they caught a glimpse of it...they would turn from it and never look at it again if they could help it. The worst thing you can do to one....is to publicly expose a weakness of theirs and embarrass or shame them so others will see. Mostly....they appear pretty perfect and not see any weakness what so ever since they will never put themselves into a position of showing human frailty which is the very thing they despise. Appearances are a major concern and focus in all regards.
What I witnessed was not a lot of concern or worry about anything like this EVER....unless it helped them get what they wanted but for only that long until they get it. As soon as they do....it disappears just as fast.
This is why you can't just cherry pick these symptoms from a book or what you see and then immediately suspect Narcissism as the cause. What I saw...is they hide these things pretty well and you don't see them as Narcissists because it is NOT obvious until you've been around one for a good long time. I think that's the only way to really know from a track record over time that is consistent and never changing. Consistently inconsistent does not fit this diagnosis.
J
Anonymous1776, I agree with J
Anonymous1776, I agree with J's point:
"you can't just cherry pick these symptoms from a book or what you see and then immediately suspect Narcissism as the cause. "
Asperger's, alexithymia, ADD, sociopathy, Narcissim, never having been encouraged or taught social intelligence all have different causes and treatments, and all include matters of empathy or its lack in their cluster of frequent symptoms.
I think it's terrifically dangerous to oneself, or damaging to a relation, to settle on a label for oneself or another person from books, blogs, discussion board opinion....and then start operating as if it were true, but in fact there has been no professional assessment, in which a trained person, after thorough testing, tells the client that the label matches more than things here and there, but instead is a very high fit with the person's behavior.
People self-label online all the time these days.
But what if the self labeler doesn't know enough, really, about what professionals, who have live-time, trained, clinical competence, know fits that label? What are these self labeling people doing to themselves if they apply the wrong label to themselves....and then live to fulfill the label?
Anonymous, I wish you well and think your call out to Melissa in her blog area was the right thing to do. I think, with J, that you need to get from what you read other people write that at least in written description might fit you, into contact with a professional who can help you professionally, offline to see what those on/off empathetic feelings that you have really are. I'll bet you'll be relieved, if you work with a good professional. At minimum, you won't have all the mixture and stew of reading here and there, tugging you this way and that about yourself. Once with help you know more about where your warm and cool patches of empathy really do from, you'll have a chance of telling the young woman you're dating the truth, so that she is in a better situation of knowing what's up, when you're in a cool spell.
You care about her. Care enough about her that you don't send her off on a goose chase, thinking you are one label, when in fact you're not, you're dealing with something else. Care enough about her as well that you don't make decisions for her, such as what she deserves or doesn't deserve. That's paternalistic, and we are now too far beyond paternalism as a feature of general culture for you to decide what your young friend can or should tolerate. That's treating her like a baby. Whatever you do, don't decide you know her feelings.
You owe it to #1 you and #2 her, to, as J says, get out of the situation of reading here and there and picking out of what you read what seems to fit you sometimes. Go find out more about who you are by working with a professional. Your inclination to reach out to connect with Melissa here was the right inclination. The therapist can also help you talk with your friend. It sounds like you two have a very special relationship, and she's a special young woman.
Just a sidebar comment, not a comment in any way about you, but about a kind of internet discussion I've had more than my fill of. Again, Anonymous, this is not about you personally, but about an issue as I've seen it handled on the net in several discussion boards I used to visit (not on this one)
"I identify with what a lot of people I've read about have been saying. They're highly emotionally intelligent with a high-level of cognitive compassion/empathy. They easily understand what others are going through, their behavior, and what they are thinking."
Again I'm not describing you, I'm reacting to this that you read that people are writing about themselves reminds me so much, so much about discussions on autism and authism/Asperger's boards where the claim comes up from time to time that all autistics (there's that label again) are highly emotionally intelligent, but just differently so, they discern with their "cognition", which they usually mean their reason "what others are going through, their behavior and what they are thinking." Oh. My. Goodness. Well for one thing, that takes comments harvested from professional literature that insist that autistics have empathy, and blows it way, way past empathy into god-powers.
Do you know something, I'm not autistic, I don't have ADHD or ADD. I don't have a "condition" that "gives" me powers. But I have very good emotional intelligence, because I had to learn to observe, remember, notice nuance, read faces, predict, develop persuasive skills, read the big picture, yaddayadda, because I would have the hell beaten out of me psychically and sometimes physically, if I messed up. I wasn't born with this. Yes I can read faces and yes I do notice physical movement. About all can say that I was "given" with my kit that came when I was born is that I can read faces and remember social details. But that latter I sure did develop, because I had to.
I'm not the Best in the West, but I'm not a slacker in emotional intelligence either. And I can tell you from using it that HIGH emotional intelligence that is effective in doing acts of empathy or having an idea of the possibility of others' feelings, requires a whole lot more than "cognitive" skills. It needs everything: skin sense, attention to movement pattern, intuition, memory, a predictive ability based on movement and images. Read Gavin de Beker's The Gift of Fear, for starters. Read what professional security forces are trained to do, to augment physical observation, and to hold the phone and not jump to conclusions, based on what they observe. Do you know their very best key to discerning things like whether or not a person is telling the truth, or is being motivated by a feeling? They ASK the person. And listen very, very carefully. I'm going to loop back to that. I think a whole relation can stand or collapse based on whether or not the partners ask questions, listen carefully, somehow get it in their memory what was said, and not make themselves the One Who Knows Other than what the partner is answering.
I'll never deny that anyone has empathy, that isn't the way my mind runs anyway, but I can tell you about these self proclaimed highly intelligent cognizers that "cognizing" is not the way to find out the insides of people's hearts. Despite my skills, and they're good ones, that I've put to work in management, leadership, and building group relations, in my various jobs over time, I never, ever, EVER, delude myself that I can or anyone can see what someone else is thinking. Oh. My. Goodness. I can tell you that I had the smugness sometimes to believe that I could and just you wait to see what life hands you in that situation. Think of emotional cigars exploding in your face, and real uphappiness breaking out, because I thought the other person was in New York City and they were in Montevideo.
You didn't write that but that self-blind, others-blind comment yes gets shopped out there online, and the very idea is so full of hubris that it is swollen up like a balloon of ego about to explode. No, only God sees inside the heart of people. If you don't believe in God, well then no one at all can see inside hearts.
Do you want to find out what's in your dear girlfriend's heart? ASK HER, and LISTEN TO HER, ON HER TERMS. If you do this, with or without the coaching of a therapist, over time, you will be able to know more about your girlfriend's thoughts and feelings. And then you can empathize on solid ground.
She's the one who knows her heart best. No so-called highly emotionally intelligent person through the single channel of cognition applied ot (partial) observation, will ever, ever know her heart. What that cognizer will know, in the end, will only be the construct he or she created in his or her OWN head, then fit pieces of observation into it. But that construct, adorned with selected observations, is not your girlfriend.
Once again, your relation sounds from what you say, and I trust you, very special and she does. You, do, too, to me, as I read and reread your post.
I Agree NowOrNever
Only to add here to what you said. I had to learn this stuff. One of the people I mentioned was my own father. The effect that has on you (the abuse of being parented by one) is something that you can't undo alone. It makes you susceptible to them in future relationships because you learn to a certain degree....that these things are somewhat normal despite the parts you definitely know are completely out of wack. Unraveling this means you come to a place where you go...."Holy Cow...that was some Fucked Up Shit!!" (pardon the French) And then you realize....what you thought was only a little a skew was way off the chart! But that's just it. It's off the chart but it's not that everyone doesn't have these negative human qualities to some degree at different times (especially when you are a child and still learning how to socialize). When we were very young (as a toddler for example) where our entire world is all about ME...we weren't at the top of our game back then and acted in these ways until we learned to be different. (to say the least lol )
All of these qualities are there (or were there) in all of us....but at some point in time we learned to be different. This is normal....staying that way and learning to perfect the art of exploitation is where things go horribly wrong. When an adult get stuck in a place with the same mentality as a 3 years old in emotional intelligence ..... it's all about Me all of the time....that's when it crosses the line.
J
Hi, Frenchy : )
You had a line in there too good not to repeat:
Unraveling this means you come to a place where you go...."Holy Cow...that was some Fucked Up Shit!!" (pardon the French)
So agree.
l've tackled work on myself alone and in therapy. With a therapist who has the gift for it, plus training and clinical experience, getting to those life changing Holy Cows is faster.
Oui ;)
Being the stereo-typical guy that I am.....I have learned the hard way that you can't do everything yourself without some help occasionally. Without thinking about this for a split second longer....getting help from a trained professional who really knows these things (that you can trust are right) is not something you can do without when it comes to sorting this all out and making sense of it. You could sit by yourself in a room alone thinking about them for eternity....and never get the answers you are looking for. I concur.
I think if you look at it that way....that's doing something instead of spinning your wheels and never going any where?
J
So i'll give you this, I def
So i'll give you this, I def exist in a high performing narc family. so not as bad as it could be. but still when i needed an ounce of empathy not fun. 4/6 people in my family have adhd. what i see it as is intergenerational trauma turn into developmental trauma where everything developes in context of that.
Now i would tech encourage any one to look at their family knowing that personality disorder traits arent a yes/no but on a spectrum and having the lable only spells death to the relationship if the other partner is also the problem due to fears of abandonment and object constancy issues that cause splitting and black and white thinking.
now - i will admit - im the total accurate af know it all who connected the last several genrations of family history along with everything from genetics to philosophy tracing things through the family and life. so one day i showed up and was like "the gig is up" - yeah - didnt work well for me. Ive learned to pay great specific attention to "HOW PEOPLE DISAGREE" because there is a right and wrong way.
I def have a high intelectualizing defense mechanism. so basically - im accurate - but disconnected from my body so i cant answer with knowledge of the present moment and the foundation of our expereince. so very theoretical and model building like for sure.
what ive experienced is that using that lable and not falling into the Emotional object constancy trap that comes with balck and white thinking and the perfectionism that we have to perform great. its like a mental trap to fall into.
the general issue isnt wheather the lable can be a functional useful lable to understand certain patterns. its wheather the people themselves looking this up are self aware enough. which is the real problem. because if you are accusing someone of that - you also have issues because the two are a system. and its not "Them" its the system of "Self and other"
also - you need to separate out the emotional tone of any information on narcissism from the facts and science of it. I know this is easier for me, but still, that an and openness to explore it for future growth are the reason its helped me personally. i remember reading how fear processing in the narc brain worked on astudy and it actually helped me understand my self better for instance. narc or not. i got things out of it. led to me even realizing i intellectualized in the first place as a way to pull back from the right side of the brain.
I think because I took the label in myself -im like mid way on the NPI, but not npd. (i laughed watching the Godfather realizing in a sort of nicer kinda way thats the family- was like HOLY **** its a legit managment system -how to manage narcissists int he work place. I decided to own it and take control of it and build a character development plan for my self and create an assessment and do a crap ton of emotional intelligence learning and try to heal my attachment which was def kinda disorganized a bit.
The reason im doing all this, and the one anyone can hang their hat on - "Be the person you needed as a kid"
for instance just making sense of my Fearful-avoidant attachment style has been illuminating for to conquer fear one needs to appreciate and explore the complexity of fear.
Fearful-avoidant = Fearfully preoccupied with Failure Rejection Criticism Humiliation in the context of attachments and dismissively avoidant of the vulnerability it brings by subconsciously suppressing emotional experiences* due to fears of abandonment as result of Past Implicit Patterns that operate underneath our consciousness level as well as due to a shaky emotional object constancy.(which can be healed) ----- To any of these fears we must expect the EGO to jump in to protect us in the form of both a shame based identification and a pride based counter identification. we must see both to step out of either one.
- our core fears all relate within the context of our attachments. - ADHD people fyi tend to be either anxiously preoccupied or fearfully (which is anxious preoccupied--Dismissive avoidant as a coping strategy) if you haven't learned about your attachment styles and how they show up in the relationship, that right there is a big one that needs to be done for they are unconscious patterns that got formed before your memory kicked in that you live out day in and day out. (take a test online and learn yours and your husbands, use it to predict problems and research and understand attachment needs and have a more honest discussion)
the issue is people get stuck in the person BEING THE LABLE AND BEING ALL GOOD OR ALL BAD trap...."HELLO EMOTIONAL OBJECT CONSTANCY" or lack of it. Which if you have an insecure attatchment to begin with it means you at least have a shaky one(again another spectrum) (it causes fear of abandonment)(fear of success fyi is fear of change because it can feel like abandoment)(hello self sabatoge)
its a tricky as self awarness exercise that dosent lend it self well to people who are afraid - the fact of the matter, is if you can seperate the lable from the emotional tone that you see in resources on it often - and can turn a lens on your self too, then it its just a conceptual toy you play with. In growing i have collected labels and conepts because when im trying to "hack a moment" that is a limiting factor or barrier to growth, i end up often looking at my list of concepts ive collected and modifiers and i think of my model of the moment and whats occuring in it. I need to be able to try stringing any applicable lables in that moment and pop them into google.
its all a giant game, we are all living predictable scripts whether we like it or not. the trick, is to use the tools at your disposal to step out of the inevitable scripts and beable to detatch from it all over time thrugh healing and a constant seeking of higher states and levels of overall integration. using the brain and body as a model and models of the interaction betwen self and other. a lot can be learned and healed from if you just focus on hacking that one pain point through learning and growth.
Humans are inherently ambivalent to their barriers of connection. they also need to start looking at the beliefs that stop them from growing. because when you recognize in the long run (and we need checkin points and compassion along the way) if you see that if your not moving to a higher level of complexity its because you havent hacked the problem yet.
if the N label isnt helpful - one that i recomend looking into that can cause both adhd and some pathological personality issues along with it (they are on a spectrum - embrace the gray area)
but look up the book " healing developmental trauma" (Based on the NARM model) as its likley a lens that will add a lot of understanding to the mix.
if you wish to see the "survival style" tab i have in my "outcome onion" as i call it, that ive kinda been collecting info on latley, it might illistrate how some of their survival styles show up in the present day. in fact you may have some.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZK6b0lwJfrR6dxEHhoPFtdyaIepADyoT...
check there. - I also know if you have issues with any "Pride based Identifications" or Beliefs you also have to deal with the "Shame based Identifications" simultaneously as if you try to fix just one at a time the other will always get stronger and vice versa. So you cant just focus on "their pride" or "their shame" the survival styles help to see how childhood experiences show up in the now. which ive found helpful. im a mix of all of them which is its own trap but alas, im growing.
The nice thing - Humble Narcisism is actually the best narcissism, it takes work, we need to integrate, heal even do things like improv that might just show us how to ACTUALLY come alive by Living our story. In the end it may be a blessing in disguise.
------
-h2orocks4001
Nice Post desposi....
You make a lot of great points....But it's like many good books, with good facts, that could help identify what is holding us back from growing...I have to admit it's me, and I have to admit it's not chronic, and I have to believe and be willing to work at personal change....
When there are major difference's in us....Things we acquire from nature and nurture ...Things forced on us, and things self inflicted....We must be healed from the things you mentioned (fleshly attributes) in order to see ourselves as others do....It takes what you have....A greater will to grow, than to blame....
There are so many hinderance's to this dynamic when dealing with the system as you called it...LOL....The amount of commitment (fully) should be the same for all who enter's by vow into one of these systems....But we know the amount of commitment, effort, and energy is so one sided in many of these systems, that it's very difficult to correct it.....It's hard to tell adults to calmly and patiently guard against all the negative emotions that usually occur when they are doing 80 to 90% of the work the system requires....And it's also hard to tell a person who has life by the tail (being carried in life) to step it up, when in their mind, they are max. out already....So the dynamic continues....
But, if awareness of personal self, and how our behaviors and actions are effecting others (not to mention our own lives) then there is hope for a better way! I applaud your desire to learn and grow....We all need to care and be so self aware.....And leave our finger pointing for the guy in the mirror....
c
Very honest post and you have some very good feedback...
I just want to add one thought....
Do you want her more? Or do you want what's good for her more? At some point you will have to be honest with yourself and determine if these two questions can be answered with a common positive....
I wish you well....
C
Please be upfront... Anonymous 1776
Laura S
Don't hide!
Really good relationships don't include much hiding...so I would suggest that you consider opening up about your fears in this area. The fact that you care so deeply about this issue (and harbor such fear) suggests a strong attachment and strong feelings...the way you write also suggests some level of dislike of your own tendencies (the idea of causing her pain repulses me...) which, if left unaddressed, might lead you to hide and (therefore) protect the very things you dislike. I would like to suggest that this is not in your best interests.
People with ADHD tend to show their affections somewhat differently from others - strong relationships that include ADHD take this into account - and good partners for those with ADHD are those who are empathetic to the differences. This does not mean that you should be 'cold' to your partner. Rather, it means that if she understands that it is hard for you to show affection in the way others might expect, then the two of you can set up ways to make sure that she feels well-loved...AND...when she is in a period when she is feeling you are more absent than usual, she can have some way of broaching this topic to you that won't offend you - because the topic is out in the open, and you both are aware of it (see why hiding this stuff doesn't help you?)
You mention that sports help you do better - in that case, make sure sports are a very regular (and protected!!) part of your daily regimen. In your case, it's not about the sports - it's about using sports as a tool to help you create the sort of life you wish to live.
Also, you can work with your partner to create 'attend time' that will help ensure that you have time to focus on each other in a way that demonstrates your love. I spend some good amount of time on this concept in my live couples seminar.
Gratitude journals and other exercises might help you remind yourself of the good sides of you that are worth sharing with your partner. these are surprisingly helpful. One worman I worked with had a complete revelation about herself after I asked her to finish the sentence "I am worthy of love because..." with 50 different answers.
As you share your feelings of concern, it will be important that she not try to convince you that you are wrong, thereby invalidating your feelings. Rather, she should accept that you have these feelings, and try to explore them with you by asking questions and trying, along with you, to respond in creative, actionable ways (for example, setting up time to talk about deep, emotional topics on a regular basis so you have less fear that you are letting her down (in general, women LOVE to have their SO willing to open up with their deep feelings - you'll typically get brownie points for this as long as you keep your words about you, and not about her or what she is doing.)
Emotional coldness might be your way of distancing yourself from things that are emotionally difficult. I'm going to suggest that you might be well served to learn how to engage with this wonderful woman, instead. Take a look at my Recovering Intimacy self-study course. It is about learning how to identify and express yourself better, how to build excellent 'conflict intimacy' skills that allow you and your partner to talk about anything (even the most emotional topics) and also about building affection intimacy. Sounds as if you would benefit greatly from all three.
Hope this helps, at least a bit. Bottom line - please don't run away from this. Hiding your fears will negatively impact your relationship by subtly (or not so subtly) altering how you relate to each other.
Anonymous 1776
Can you please update us on what happened?
Thx!
My narcissistic husband.
When I found this post I felt like yelling "YES! I'M NOT ALONE!!" My husband of 19 yrs (we married at age 19) has become the true definition of narcissist. Add to that his ADD then you get the frazzled wife that I have become. His idea if relaxing is when he is asleep. He rarely or never can just sit and talk with me. He gets aggravated with me immediately when I do try to talk to him and labels what I want to talk about as unimportant, unnecessary, or plain stupid. So communicating with him is next to impossible. This is not how our relationship was at the beginning and marrying as teenagers may sound like the cause of our problems 19 yrs later but I can truly say we had the a great bond and were very loving and supportive of one another for many years after getting married. We found out a week before our wedding that we were going to be parents and this made my husband estatic. I was the one who was more nervous and worried than he was. He immediately went and joined the Army so that he cld support and take care of his little family. He was/is an awesome father to it our now 18yr old son. While in the Army he was an exemplary soldier and I was so proud to be an Army wife.. Fast forward a few years and I can see looking back my husband's gradual at first responsible nature and work ethic begin to slip. As he got older he seemed to become less and less family oriented and able to focus on tasks. I chalked it up to the fact he is literally talented at drawing, furniture building, cooking (he thrived at the Art Institute of Atlanta) so he has many things to choose from to occupy his time and when he and our son weren't playing ball, or video games or just doing their thing he became frustrated and angry to the point of breaking things in the house and confronting me because he saw me as the cause of whatever was aggrevating him. At this point in our marriage he is wanting a divorce. He claims that I don't listen to him and because I don't listen then his feelings or needs mean nothing to me and therefore I don't care about him and. I'm the entire reason for him wanting a divorce. There are other reasons he uses to justify why i. Have ruined our marriage such as we don't have enough things to show for the length of time we have been together. We live in a nice home, we both have. vehicle and he has a patient wife and a son looking to him as a role model. And he says I do too much for him. He accuses me of neglecting our son and focusing on him too much. However when I was focused on our son which accusations was often, he made me choose between him and our son and he expected me to chose him only so that when he has my attention he would the accuse me of smothering him and always being "up his butt" which over time became his mantra for why he became annoyed with me just my looking at me.. he has never had to handle the bills getting paid, His materialistic attitude has gotten worse over the past 2 yrs. to the point of accusing me of stealing his items that he can't find or that I hide his things in order to make things harder on him.. Smh... I don't know who this man is... He is not the loving, supportive man I married in 1997 and again we were 19yrs old.. I don't want to throw away our marriage but he has labeled me in his mind as annoying and someone he loves but does not like. I am at the end of my rope.. He has his things including clothes packed up in his truck.. He says that he is sure that I will damage or destroy If he hadn't gotten then out of the house... He has broken 2 of laptops multiple phone, my nook just to name the things of mine he destroyed so that I would not have them.. Anyone else experienced. Their spouse regressing back to immature actions and false accusations that can lead to physical abuse? Any thoughts are welcome!! Pls know that I still love him very much and I do not want a divorce!
My spouse also makes false accusations
accusing me of doing things I never did. I used to be bewildered by this and confused. Now I say "That didn't happen" and when he argues I will ask him for specific details of the event. He always says "Ok, that didn't happen, i misspoke." But he didn't misspeak, something is wrong with him.
My narcissistic husband
Please take some comfort in the fact that he will acknowledge the things he accused you of in fact did not happen. That doesn't mean he apologized to you for the stress he caused you for no reason. But it's a start. I'm sorry you are going through this.. I'm sure like me you would not wish this kind of treatment on your worst enemy. My husband is living in the same house as me but doesn't treat me or regard me as his wife.. Since the problems we have are my fault (according to him) only he can determine if I'm doing things better or more the right way.. It's crazy because my actions really have no impact on what and when he makes decisions concerning our marriage.. He alone is the judge jury and executioner. When I can no longer handle what he is doing or saying I simply leave and try to gather my thought.. I have found that recording out conversations at least let's me go back and listen to what he is saying especially if I just auto erase things while I'm in fight or flight mode.. Smh
Show quoted text
No, he's just really selfish
I have to look askance at the claim that ADHD spouses only seem selfish because they've withdrawn from non-ADHD spouses because we are just SO mean to them.
I have a blood sugar disorder and I have to be able to eat as soon as I wake up in the morning. I also need to have snacks available to me in case of a sudden crash. My ADHD spouse will literally eat all of my snacks before I get out of bed, leaving me floundering and dangerously ill.
He does stuff like this all the time. I've even had my doctor explain to him how important it is that I have these snacks available to me. It does not faze him. My *brother* even once caught him eating them and scolded him.
It's not like there is no other food in the house. He just *chooses* to eat the food that I need to have immediately available. It's despicable and yes, it is incredibly selfish.
My narcissistic husband
This behavior sounds very familiar. I know not to eat the last of anything or ill have to hear how selfish I am. He knows that I am a very giving person. Ironically that is one of his problems with me and one of the many he rattles off as to why he wants a divorce.. Accusing me of only caring about "you, you, you" (as in myself) he says I'm selfish and at the same time he gets mad when I do the housework while he is home... Smh
Me:
NPD AND BPD
NPD AND BPD mimic each other that might be what u r seeing here NOT adhd
Intersting Observations...."On the Make" Mrssanada
I don't want to say you are all the way wrong here.....but your not all the way right here either. If there was one topic that I have spent a disproportionate time exploring and investigating....it is this one.....that is the topic of NPD vs narcissism as a symptom of something else. I could easily say you are being quite narcissistic here in your conclusions or in some of the things you've expressed since it shows up as "self serving" or "only serving you" or how you feel about this based on yourself alone. And the thing is....I wouldn't be wrong in saying that.
BUT.....but.... .but..... but!!!!! So have I been....as well as most people who come here in a state of absolute frustration and one of giving up on the person you are with. Once you stop caring about the person you are with anymore.......EVERYONE...will act or behave in narcissistic ways when the goal is to serve you and you alone without any consideration for the other person no matter who you are with or where you go. EVERYONE...can be a narcissist....at some point in time or another....and do.....more often than not....when things aren't going the way we like it. We are ALL....GUILTY.....of behaving, acting, thinking, and speaking....in narcissistic ways at different times depending on......... End of story.
I wanted to speak to some of the things you said....and throw my two bits into this to make some distinctions and possibly give you a better idea of what you may be seeing....and then identify what these things are in terms of being NPD or something else that might be just a tendency for Narcissistic behavior but not NPD itself. What I have come to understand.....there is line so to speak.....where someone crosses over into a different realm of reality that is so distorted and so consistent....that they fall into the category of a full blown narcissist.
We are very lucky to have such a good example of a full blown Narc on our hands right now...;..that I can start with one (that I have no doubt what so ever )....that I can use him as the base line for what I'm talking about.
DONALD TRUMP.......full blown.....without a doubt!!!! He is my "Favorite Martian" as a means of ridicule for being such a complete space alien and "non-human" in his utter inability to think in any other terms than from a Narcissistic perspective....ALL THE TIME........ 24/7.
The hallmark of a true full blown Narc is "consistency".....not "inconsistency".....and that has to be measured over enough time to establish that this is "consistent always and never changing." Never.....never, never, never!!!!! Consistently!!!!! LOL
And in my mind....there is another criteria that seems to go along with being consistent and never changing....
They are ALWAYS.........."On the Make".......24/7.....all day.....everyday.......every minute of every day....and never changing.
"ON THE MAKE" as defined...............
on the make
1. ambitious and aspiring, especially in a ruthless, exploitative way
2. offering and seeking sexual gratification or conquest
Unfortunately, when one tyrant falls, another is likely to be on the make.
In my mind.....if a person isn't "On The Make"...or has that component to their personality as a main stay consistent and never changing part of what makes them tick or what their MO (modus operandi) in all things all of the time....then they probably are not a full blown Narc....IMHO.
And in my mind....that has a distinctive set of qualities that differ from just "objectifying" which is what you were describing in your example of sex...and only looking at his Johnson and not at you...directly in the eyes. Before I tell you that you may not be accurate in the conclusion you've drawn...intead, perhaps...it's not his Johnson he is so focused on during sex with you....did you ever stop and consider that I might ask? It's still "objectifying"....but "objectifying" itself....is not the criteria ( in my mind ) that says someone is a Narcissist by itself. It might be only part of it....but you have to have the other "parts" as well. ( punn intended lol )
Without getting too far into this subject...I've had this explained to me by a trained professional who was actually a woman...not a man in this case. This was a woman therapist that I actually really liked when my ex-wife and I were looking for one years ago....but it was my ex-wife who didn't like her and why we moved on to find another one.
As she described "erotica"...as a means to stimulate you sexually: either during sex...or used as a tool to simulate you during "masturbation" ie: Porn
As she went on to further describe this saying..." some people respond to "erotica" more favorably than others both in men and women.....and find it "heightens" the experience for them...while others may find it a "distraction" or "seen as a deterrent to having a good sexual experience." I think the key thing to think about...goes back to "consistency" again. If a person....cannot....be stimulated "at all" by any other means than only external "objectification ONLY"....then that starts moving more in the direction you are talking about which may be exactly what you are saying here yourself. The caveat....is that "erotica" and "visual stimulation' externally is not only a physiologic common response in men ( being visually stimulated or excited sexually by seeing a .."sexy object" in a more general sense due to the WAY we are made.....T
hat doesn't imply being "On the Make" and objectifying the "sexy object" and it becoming a "sexy objective" for the purpose of exploitation which is what I am seeing as the key differentiating factor here. This may sound like semantics or a subtle difference...but in my mind.....this is NOT so subtle....and it makes a BIG difference!!!!! This is that line that is crossed in my mind.....and it is the defining difference that is NOT so subtle in the effect this has on others.
This is a "Qualitative" difference I might add. ADHD is "Quantitative" if you understand the difference between these two ways of categorizing something to make this kind of determination.
In this paragraph....you seem to be combining these two things together but the symptoms you're using to draw your conclusions from are actually ADHD related...not Narcissist related even though it's in there. This is just showing you what I'm seeing and putting it into the same context of the things I'm saying here....
Then Adhd ppl r so high on the dopamine and have hyperfocuse for the NEW partner it seems like they r seeing into ur soul but really its just a "FIX" and when it wares off in a month or two they r on to the next thing the new "shinny penny" as it were.
The ADHD symptoms which are "Quantifiable" are hyperfocus, and "things that are shiney" which is just a way to describe being distracted easily on things of interest what ever they may be. It could be a Hamburger if you were hungry...or maybe doing something fun instead of doing something you hate to do ...like playing video games instead of cleaning the bathroom for example. This is not Narcissism at all or even related to it. This is due to the other things you brought up which can be "quantified" as a physiologic "reaction" or "effect" of something else that is not narcissism related what so ever if you are following me up to this point? This is not behavioral or a behavioral moral or character problem and not why this happens....as to the "cause."
But the most telling thing you said....that is easily over looked in the other things you said. This is the subtle...less obvious symptom that you cannot see or witness in someone just by looking at them and observing them and reporting back the things you see as you've done here....anecdotally. The reason for this is because it's a "quality" or is "qualitative" not "quantitative" but is there none the less.
You said....." for the NEW partner" ....." it seems like they r seeing into ur soul" .... "its just a "FIX".... "on to the next thing the new "shinny penny" as it were".
That...right there....is not ADHD or caused by it I can tell you. That is a person who is "On the Make" just like I said. It's a quality that you feel...not necessarily see...and it's very difficult to spot just by taking things case by case anecdotally speaking. If you ever get into an argument with a full blown Narc....they are very good at making sure....you will not string all those unrelated, isolated instances together so you can look at them as a whole and try and keep them separate from you so you won't be able to see the qualities....and only the quantities....that's the point in doing it.....so you can't see it because it's invisible and is not a tangible qualitative thing.
"Objectifying" is tangible and quantitative....but it's not Narcissism by itself. It is but a symptom of the "quality" of Narcissism as a "behavioral complex or aggregate" but cannot show whether someone is a Narcissist or not.....just from the symptom itself if that makes sense?
Shared symptom in those terms is the difference between "causation" and "cause"....if I said that correctly. As said...."cause" does not imply "causation"....even if the symptoms over lap. Is there a relationship here between the two? I think there is....so the answer is....."could be".....but not necessarily "always."
Speaking in "absolutes" by itself...is a symptom a seeing things from a narcissistic perspective the same as you've done here. I could draw the conclusion that you're a Narc....if I jumped the same conclusion the same as you've done here I might add. (could have, would have, should have....always, never, ever....absolutely )
But that goes right back to what I said right from the beginning on my comment.....we all do this to some degree....but we are ALL not Narcissist even IF we do it sometimes....that's normal...and just being human when we do. It's NOT.......always.....and if it is and never changes in a highly consistent pattern over time...that might be cause for concern....if this is what you ALWAYS see....in a consistent pattern of absolutes in another persons behavior as you are experiencing them.....IN ALL WAYS. lol
That's being "On the Make".....as I'm saying this to you.
J
How to Spot a Narcissists?
Look for "virtues....as qualities"....not behaviors. Simply put.
I'm including a great article that describes what I was trying to describe as "qualities" in a person as too there character. Narcissism.....is a "character defect" as in a "chronic condition" of their personality.(the consistent component) outside of ADHD and symptoms that look the same or similar. As the article suggests at the end.....
"virtues like wisdom, knowledge, courage, humanity and justice and temperance........
rather than one who seems narcissistic and scheming. “Voting for a virtuous candidate increases not only the likelihood that legislators will have genuine concern for other people, but also the chances that he or she will cooperate effectively in promoting democratic aims.”
If you apply "virtures"...as qualities a person has...the more virtuous they are in "quality" and in the flavor of their overall behaviors and where their motivations "lie".....whether they act or behave in narcissistic ways at times... but not others or all the time.....I'd say they are probably not a true "Narcissist" at heart and this is not at the heart of why they might behave the way they do. Even if the behavior....looks the same or identical....in the "moment."
Narcissism....is not all about "in the moment".....ADHD is. Narcissism as a character defect.... is all about....being "consistent...and remaining consistent...over time" Which is not a component of being consistently inconsistent AT ALL as it is with ADHD. You can have BOTH....which is also true but knowing how to tell the difference.....seems to the hard part. I hope that helps make this easier to understand and see the difference yourself.
J
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/5-signs-that-a-politician-is-a-narcissi...
Um WOW
Sorry J this guy has BPD ALONG with adhd I just encourage everyone to looking to all these disorders i was miss informed and now my experience with this person i dealt with BPD ALONG with Adhd makes sense adhd seems to exasperate BPD O_o
I Know What You're Saying Mrssanada
I was raised by one....who happened to be my own father. I don't suspect him as much...having ADHD but it's possible I guess. I'm about 90% sure...my mother was the one with ADHD so I have a good side by side comparison to work from there if I'm right about my father not having ADHD.
But...what you said here is interesting at least from my perspective. I'm not going to take on any qualities or things you've said about you're H here and you definitely should be the one to know.....
" there is still no empathy and or compassion in either of them hence why they never take responsibility for their actions and blame others for anything and everything! Which is like dealing with a 6 Child! "
As far as my father was concerned....he wasn't like dealing with a 6 year old child by any means. He was absolutely calculating, and very controlled in an emotional way...but extremely manipulative and emotionally controlling using anger as a means to control others. Otherwise...he was rather expressionless and un-emotional and behaved in a very mature and authoritative manner at all times. He was very responsible in terms of his duty and responsibilities however.......to a fault I might add. Lifeless...and without expression or emotion....would be a better way to describe it.....like a Shark.( a predatory eating machine...always looking for more food to eat )
My mother on the other hand (including myself here too...as well as my sisters who I suspect have ADHD as well ) was/is compassionate, empathetic, responsible and didn't blame others for anything. Almost to a fault...I might add.
So this combo you are saying that is diagnosed in your H? Let's pull out the common theme between the Narcissist that I know to be my father....and what you are describing for someone with ADHD/Narc combo?
Your H and my father share these things in common.....lack of empathy and compassion and blaming others for what was wrong with them/him and refusing to take "responsibility for their emotions" or any "wrong doing" on there part.....and why they feel the way they do.
My mom, myself, and my sisters....tend to "blame ourselves" as the cause of anything first....before we blame anyone else for almost anything. You get that way....when you live with a Narc since they're the one blaming....and you are the one...."accepting the blame." It goes with the territory I think....as a result of being around one for too long. But as far a child like thinking goes and not being very realistic and more idealistic....or having more emotional "thinking and reasoning" in a non logical way?? (like a 6 year old ? ) If I had to pick between my mother or father......I'd have to pick my mother on that one for sure. Same issue's I've had at times in my life.....as well as my sisters too.....to varying degrees. I'm probably the least....like this...and my mother in her own way....was probably the "most" like this even though highly responsible in most any other way you could describe as the qualities of a "responsible person."
The ultimate test here is the one for being a victim. As said...."a victim is a person...who refuses to take responsibility."
So if you apply the fact....that my mother, myself and my sisters....took all the responsibility that was thrown at us for anything.....first. And not blame anyone else....even to the point....of taking on "too much" responsibility and believing my father when he would blame us? (first....at every turn in the road no matter whether we were responsible or not? )....
That seems to go exactly contrary to the assertion that implies that people with ADHD are like this as you said.
Soooooo.....what's the cause of blaming others first.....refusing to take responsibility or being accountable for your actions and behaviors......and showing no empathy and no compassion?
Is that Narcissism.....or ......ADHD? You tell me?
I have absolutely no problem....being compassionate and/or having empathy....and no problem being held accountable for my actions and taking responsibility for anything that I have done in the past. And the one thing I almost never did.....to a fault....is blame anyone else but myself for anything I was ever responsible for....or had trouble being able to know what that is or deny it when I was confronted......too a fault. There were things I didn't know or couldn't see before I was diagnosed....but even before.....I thought there was something wrong with me....not everyone else.
And I have ADHD???? So where's the problem....and what's Narcissism and what's ADHD here?
In combo.....they would all just get thrown together in a pile and it would be almost impossible to separate these things out....unless you had those experiences and a life time of examples to help you do this which I understand for you......is extremely difficult to know or manage together and know where on starts...and the other one begins.....and just how difficult and almost impossible that is to do at times. I couldn't do it.....if I didn't have those examples and a lifetime of experiences to work from along with the knowledge I've learned from as many sources as have been available to me.
So....you cannot make blanket statements concerning ADHD....because ADHD....is not Narcissism and they are 2 different animals...that have different reasons and different results for the everything that are not the same by any means...even though in some things and not others.....maybe.....but not for sure as I just illustrated for you with myself and my family for example.
J
All I can say to you....is I know the feeling. Been there....done that. But I do know for sure...that not everyone with ADHD.....is also a Narc like you H from the sound of it.
Actually
J i didn't mention i was talking bout TWO different ppl here
my EXh has NPD
AND the last guy i was seeing has ADHD combo AND BPD
the two added up to be the same with their dealings of empathy and compassion
neither seem to apply then to anyone but themselves is what i meant in all this
That Makes Sense......Mrsssanada
It fits right into what I said. It's the danger of stereotyping as NON was saying to you.
I would also like to say....that for me, I didn't think you were getting nasty or even that NON or myself were getting that way either?
The only thing that I found offensive at all??? Just so you know? Was talking to me in the 3rd person as if I wasn't there in your responses to me. I tend to get informative and speak impersonally at times and that can come off in an impersonal way when I'm problem solving especially.....but being dismissed like that....was the only problem I had in anything you said but I had no reason to even bring that up to you just so one know.
I can read between the lines and take the good with the bad as well as anyone...and I don't take on the qualities or have any responsibility to take on....for what someone else does that's not me.
Having said that...based on my own experience's like this.......dissmissive/avoidant personalities...are a concern or have a propensity to be narcissistic as well. As I'm dealing with this with my wife now........I've found that I've picked some of those dissmissive behaviors up....just being around her.
For you.....if you've been around this for a long time....the effect that has on what you expect from others and how you interpret what others say...will take on a very pessimistic view which starts getting applied in a global sense as in those stereo types that NON was mentioning.
On your behalf and for you here.....there's not need to apologize for this since I understand it from that perspective.....reading the wrong intention in what others are doing or saying to you....is the detrimental effect that can have on you and being with or around a Narc as it sounds like you have.....cannot make you immune to this unless you see it in yourself first and then do something about it.....for you that is.....you can't make a Narc....do anything or change...that's for sure but there is this avoidant/dissmisive attachment thing that is another separate factor to consider that can go along with it....that is probably doing most of the damage to you...just so you know "WHAT" is causing most of the damage and the effect it has on you...for your sake....I'm saying this.
If it was easy.....none of us would be here right?
J
Again my apologies
I have ask the mod to take all these replies down tho i dont wish to poison the thread
i should have just simply said no adhd cant cause NPD the two mimic each other a LOT! And someone can have both but one doesnt "cause" the other
Stereotypes
Hi, Mrssanada
As you said in your previous post, you are describing your experience of someone who has combined ADHD and NPD....although checking it again, maybe it was two relations, I'm a little uncertain of that, from my read of what you wrote...but in any case, one relation with someone with combined ADHD and NPD or two, .of course you are the best person to describe the impact on you of living with that person or those two people...of course. We give each other the respect of believing that each of us posting is the best person to know our own life.
My husband who does have ADHD is not a Narcissist.
I don't cotton to your generalizations that sweep up and label people you've never met.
Sorry
I apologize for this thread getting nasty that wasnt my intent and i will ask to board mod to take down my comments
You're fine Mrssanada
It has to have been rough that you had that contact with Narcissists. How are you with it, now?
What makes me sad
Hi Now thnx for asking sorry today has been a rough day for me in general i havent even THOUGHT bout my NPD exh in a long time and the bad thing is i didnt see how similar this last jerk was with ADHD in play he is unmedicated and is combo and my therapist thinks he might be BPD too o_O so it makes me mad at myself that I second guessed myself and let this person waste 7 months of my life when i KNEW sumthing was off with him after like the first few weeks grrr and i spent 7 years with my exh NPD and got my fill of that disorder ya would think i would have seen it coming a mile away with this last idiot! Lol so i think i kinda asked for it!
I am a fixer and a caregiver type personality and i am learning i might be an empath so all of these things make me a prime target for "soul suxers" Ugh lol
luckily right now i seem to have met a wonderful Man (so far) but still feel like i got hit by a mac truck and am on guard so hopefully it wont ruin things with him ... I know i know i should take time and get over this mess before i go dating but i dont want to lose this guy he is soooooo nice and is a dream to look at *grins*
so i have been just kicking myself today for NOT trusting my instincts grrrr
thnx for asking
i really wasnt trying to generalize sorry it came out that way :)
Going toward better
Hi, honey,
You and I are fine. I grew up in a home where one of my parents was NPD + Borderline. Being around either of those for any length of time leaves some things to get over, in the soul. Putting oneself back together and retrieving oneself. I think it's a really good sign that with that second relation you mentioned, it lasted 7 months, not 7 years. I'm glad that you're working things through with a therapist. Someone in your corner.
Glad you're with such a nice guy now. Sounds like you're really due for some good times. You earned 'em and deserve 'em :) I havent tried to use any search functions to navigate this site, maybe someone else can help you with that, if the forum is searchable, but discussions of particular comorbids and ADHD come up from time to time. They may be of use to you.
Borderline type behavior is really hard to be around (let alone NPD). I'm glad that you're away from that.
Now
Thnx Now
Thnx now And i talked to my therapist and we figured out this guy has BPD too it explains A LOT! and just like with my EXh with NPD.. i can move on quickly cuz i KNOW it had nothing to do with me
Funny thing is any time i ever got over an old bf if they ever contact me again i will felt like puking cuz they are so gross and ugly to me lol *barf*
I believe they can certainly be tied together in some cases
I found a piece written by an unknown author titled "How not to be a Narcissist ".
This made me realize I had certain narc tendencies. Many aspects of life were all about me, When does my ship come in?, when are people going to realize my struggles?, why am I surrounded by stupid people?.
all narcissistic traits. I printed this out and keep in my sock drawer and glance over it often.
I would love to pate it but I don't know where I got it for credits.
It's a possibility!
ADHD, depression bi-P,
Good luck to all those fellows afflicted with something that is difficult or impossible to get others to understand.
Narcissist blog post
For those who are interested in the topic of narcissism and ADHD, I have written a blog post on the topic.
More Abusive Trauma by My ADHD Business Partner
I'm and thread barren. I am in constant way of my ADHD partners anger, denial, blaming, projecting, complete unawareness. Its all-ways the world against him. His therapist of 14 years has let him go. She says he cannot be helped. She tells me to not hope for change. I'm in therapy once a week. I am stuck in business with him and getting as far away most days (as I can). I need to change my life. I have as much as I can. But we are in a business we've built and I do most of the work thee days, since he's 80 and I'm 57.
Ya know, there's a term "Elder Abuse" and boy oh boy am I sure getting abused by this Elder. I find it strange that people think the Elderly are victims of abuse, and indeed they are, sometimes. However, no one statistically runs the numbers on how abusive Elderly and the ADHD personalities are to those equal or younger than them, their caregivers, their children. He is Dr. Jekyll and Mr,. Hyde. Nothing of his aberrant actions affects with others him for long until he's irritated (again). He's a light switch. One moment he's happy, then next blaming his printer and beating it up violently, his keyboard, yelling at customer service people, or the bank for sending him encryption. He acts helpless around technology and tasks that frustrate him. Temper tantrums. F bombs. "I can't do this". The next moment he receives a call from a friend and he's sweetness and light with a happy yakking laugh and pleasant, almost syrup saccharine voice. He denies agreements, forgets where he puts things and then blames me or others. He's irritable, grumpy, sarcastic, putting down with sarcasm. I;m dying inside. I;m dying.
I just stay away as much as possible and then he wonders why I wont spend time with him. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
ADHDWE ... a person in a hopeless situation
I know that is hard....
Out of control emotion's mixed w/ early onset dementia is what it sounds like....I've dealt with it, it doesn't get any better....Usually dementia patients manifest (FREELY) the spirit with which they had some awareness to control before....
I encourage you to start a process to free yourself from this partnership while you can! Just my thoughts.....One day and it could be soon, you may be the enemy, and there may be no cognitive ability to see it any different....Don't wait!
Bless you
c
This sounds like my life
This is so much like my life. My husband and I also have a business together. I work full time, plus tend to the business after coming home from work and I do all of the household chores. He has told me twice that I don't work enough. I have wasted my life on this man. I feel dead inside.
I've had enough....give him some wake up medicine....
The reason he said that, (you don't work enough) is the same reason many of us hear thoughtless comments.....In his mind, he is the only one that matters...He is completely incapable of seeing you!....((((HUGS))))...That kind of abuse makes me angry
I can think of a way to help him...Take a week off from your job, secretly pack just enough for a week at the beach, or your favorite spot that is doable. When you leave for work, head to your vacation rental....Enjoy a week away....After about a week when you show up rested w/ a nice tan....And he has a problem with it....You can just tell him...Well, since you can't see me, and you thought I didn't work enough, I knew you wouldn't miss me....Also, I just wanted you to be aware, that I have a life!
I'm just to the point that I have little patients with someone who is self absorbed and unthankful....We have to stand up for ourselves, no one else will....And the best way with an ungrateful person is non participation!
Sorry for the vent...But, I just felt your pain so real!
c
Thank you, C
Thank you, C. Getting away sounds wonderful. I'll have to see if I can make a get away happen. Thank you for your good advice, and for understanding. It means a lot.