Forum topic: Kowtow


1,  act in an excessively subservient manner.
"she didn't have to kowtow to a boss"

synonyms: grovel to, be obsequious to, be servile to, be sycophantic to, fawn over/on, cringe to, bow and scrape to, toady to, truckle to, abase oneself before, humble oneself to; More
curry favor with, dance attendance on, ingratiate oneself with, suck up to, kiss up to, brown-nose, lick someone's boots
"she didn't have to kowtow to a boss"


2,  historical
kneel and touch the ground with the forehead in worship or submission as part of Chinese custom.

synonyms: prostrate oneself before, bow (down) to/ before, genuflect to/before, do/make obeisance to/before, fall on one's knees before, kneel before
"they kowtowed to the emperor"

My husband recently used this word in reference to his behavior toward me. He said, "There won't be any more kowtowing around here." This was his response to my refusal to accept his Telling me Like It Will Be.

So this is how someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and ADD views his own actions when he is trying to appear to be a decent human being.

He's done nothing extraordinary whatsoever. The previous couple days, he did wash his own dishes following his late meal. Nothing else, At All. But clearly, in his mind, he has gone so far above and beyond what he considers to be his responsibility, that it could be considered servitude?         Wow.  I always knew his actions along this line were fake and fleeting, but I had no idea that doing one small task made him feel so small and servant-like.

**************************

And a tidbit observation from the battlefield here:       18 months ago, when I was not on board with his unilateral decision to start his own business, suddenly I began finding multiple bath towels on the floor and some in the hamper. It's like all of a sudden, he was going through towels like crazy, instead of using the same one for several days, as usual. Please keep in mind that Towel Useage has never been an issue in our household. I have never once spoken of towels or taken issue with his handling of them. This is something in his own head, possibly from years ago, a previous relationship.   SO -  here we go again. This morning, my hamper is full of towels. None on the floor, but extra used ones ready to be washed. I could not possibly care less, but.... wow, weird.

Just a look inside the mind of a forgetful narcissist, who - when he actually tries to do what he knows is the "right thing" - feels reduced by it somehow.

 

Comments

"There won't be any more kowtowing around here." 


Did you say: I know it...with a big smile on your face as you walked away? Or maybe you would have been like me...and went and goggled it...lol...

Up until this past year, i did not even have it in me to so much as disagree with him. I was a pretty sad case of Conflict Terror. I was listening so intently to his words, trying to understand... I said to him, Really? You have been kowtowing? I wanted to know how he felt that he had been so subserviant. My 18.yo son has since set me straight. He says, Mom, he doesn't believe any of that crap he says, he just tosses it out there to see if you will pick it up.

My soul has dwelt too long with one who hates peace. Psalm 120:6

Weird to be replying to myself, but i don't want to start a new thread and so here goes: Today i kowtowed. Just a bit. He'd asked me earlier in the week to please work today, since short-handed. We have not spoken since, so this morning i asked if he had it covered or did he want me to come in. No, he didn't have it covered, but he had tried. So i went in for the day. Felt very awkward. The new bookkeeper was there, so i helped her with some questions. Slow going there. She's the girlfriend of someone he knows, already works elsewhere full time. Another of his attempts to undervalue the job, get it done cheaply, and cut corners. Anyway, she's a big talker and all I could hear for the first couple hours was him shmoozing her and she playing right along with it. None of this was a bit flirtatious, yet it got on my nerves to the extent that i know i have a rather large attitude problem to sort. So there's my confession. Gimme your best shot. Please.

My soul has dwelt too long with one who hates peace. Psalm 120:6

I know I'm not supposed to be here as I said ( but I am writing a novel currently so I can leave without regret...still working on it) but.....something has really been bugging me since I read this post and I can't stop thinking about it what now.....for four days?  I have to say something or I won't be able to let it go.  It's the comment your son made.  How can I say this without putting my foot in it????? thinking........still thinking...........................

I'm your son if you understand it from my past....what he said to you is exactly what I would have said to my own mom...and did!  Without inferring anything or without any cryptic meaning to this.....I don't know your situation involving your son and it's none of my business but I know what I was like, how I felt, what my thoughts were and I didn't talk much back then....or at all unless I had to.  So when I did and talked to my mom like he did to you.....I knew a lot more than I was saying meaning......not about secrets or such.....just that I could see things a lot more clearly and understood a lot more than anyone was giving me credit for.  Teen age boys are notorious for being closed  mouthed about their thoughts and feelings anyway and I was no different back then. 

That is unless things have changed?

What I'm trying to say from the bottom of my heart in thinking about your son is that the things that are happening with you are also happening to him too and knowing that emotionally....it took it's toll because even as smart as I thought I was....that's one area I guarantee he's still just a kid in many ways.  The things that happened then ( to me) were things that I carried around for years....even more so.

I don't know what else to say but that....this isn't even giving advise or saying anything about your part in this???????but if I didn't I would not be able to live with the nagging feeling that I needed to say it for all good intentions

I'm sorry if I crossed any boundaries here and would never do this unless I felt so strongly about it.....I apologize profusely up front for any offense that might be taken but my heart is with your sons here.

 

J

Are you still here?   ;)

I can share a few things with you about my son that might give you more of a frame of reference.

He's my baby. Has 3 older sisters. That fact alone earns him medals for courage, stamina, resourcefulness, and honor among heathens  lol.

He's a sensitive, kind gentleman with a lovely girlfriend. Neither one of them smokes or drinks.

He's lived with my husband, his step-father, since he was 8 years old, and been more mature than him, since day 1. And he knows it.

He knows that I have stood in the gap for him throughout the years of bullying and he considers me an honorable person, to be respected. He holds doors for me and any woman in the area. He's a good guy.

Basically, he feels that he's had the ideal example of what kind of a man NOT to be. He has described my husband as resembling that kid on the bus near whom nobody wants to sit.

The other day, he said to me - you know, Mom, besides the add and the npd and all the rest of the alphabet soup, he just has a lousy personality.  Then he called him and asked him to pick him up something at the store. Simple as that.

Really, I think he is pretty okay :)

Thank you, J.  I know what you're saying and I also know that nobody can live through this sort of nonsense and emerge unscathed, but the fact is, my son has had some pretty stable influences,,, not the least of which has been his Mom :)

My soul has dwelt too long with one who hates peace. Psalm 120:6

Sounds very familiar!  I'm only back to share my story....fianlly figured out why I was here......I needed to see things again to get the whole picture.  I'm writing it in stages so if you want to hear more about my family it will be there....all the good and bad at once!  But I'm doing it for people just like you to include as much info about NPD and spotting Narcs as I can.....that and maybe seeing how and why people become the way they do and what's most important in all of this stuff. 

I've found a lot of forgiveness by doing this and that really is the most important thing.  I was using up too much space here as it was just to get to this place so when I'm done...I think I can go without regret of not helping others too.  If anything else it makes for an interesting story. Lost's of colorful people in my fam. lol

J

I can't help this sinking feeling that by continuing to participate in your participation here (lol) i would be dishonoring what you said just a couple days ago about having reached that last door, etc., etc. If that makes any sense at all :) Kinda like contributing to delinquency, but in a more positive way lol. I think it comes from my own years of being told "I am going to do X" and, next minute hearing, "X what?" It's disorienting to the point that I've developed my own hypersensitivity to it. But hey, whatever floats your boat, brother :)

My soul has dwelt too long with one who hates peace. Psalm 120:6

I've been practicing this a lot lately with my wife.....saying what you mean and meaning what you say....all right damn it grrrrrr

the truth.........I need to spend less time here or anything outside of my own commitment and goal to myself and my wife as I promised I would after I found out what I needed to find...stop

after I left I felt that I missed something...stop

I was right...stop

I needed to give something back and in my hast , I forgot to do this (ADHD)...stop

In the process of doing this (giving back)....I discovered an even greater gift than before....stop

forgiveness in things I have never been able to truly forgive.......stop

once I found forgiveness I felt the weight I'd been carrying for so long disappeared and instead of feeling the contempt that I had for so many things, I actually found the love that was there all along in place of it.....stop

this time that love was for me...from my family not from myself....stop

It's funny how when you give and forgive.....you get the same in return....and I didn't even have to leave the farm! lol

I'll tell this in my story as I was just about to write this part and now it has changed......is this one of those little gifts from the universe telling me I did good? ha ha

stop

 

J

(once I found forgiveness I felt the weight I'd been carrying for so long disappeared and instead of feeling the contempt that I had for so many things, I actually found the love that was there all along in place of it....) ...Freedom for our souls...A wonderful place on our Journeys'...

although I see a difference in our spiritual perspective somewhat....more the contempt for the presentation not the message,( that and having that version shoved down my throat!)...the message came through loud and clear in every respect:)

 

Thanks again

 

J

I've spent 40 years trying to digest the things of mankind and in the end all it has really produced is more pain, suffering and the lack of transparency:(....So in the continuum of time as these painful truths have been revealed by the creator, the one that is not an imposter...I start sadly seeing what I've become in the process of digesting the things of mankind...So everyday I question myself, my mind, my heart with this one simple truth you posted, because though I do not fully understand it, and how it should be working out in my life...I do know Love and all it produces is the main Key!