Forum topic: I don't feel safe with my ADD husband

Fri Apr 4th, 2008 - 2:45pm by Sueann

Forum: 
Anger, Frustration & ADHD
My husband is 46 and we've only been married 3 years. He was diagnosed with ADD about a year and a half ago after losing 3 jobs in 6 months. Then he decided not to work for 6 months and we had to move because we couldn't afford our house without him working. In the process of moving, he let a bookcase fall on my foot and I'm still in major pain because of it (untreatable). He also somehow got a nail in the lunch he packed for me. Then yesterday, he had a car accident and God knows what that's going to do to our car insurance. And I love that car, which I paid for with student loans. The problem is, I can't understand how he doesn't care about the danger he puts me in. If he knows he had ADD, why can't he be more careful? Why can't he say, "Honey, I'm letting go of the bookcase, make sure it doesn't fall on you", or check the containers before he puts the food in them, or Mapquest his destination so he won't get lost and run into other cars? Am I asking too much? I'm about to leave him because I feel like he doesn't care about my safety. He won't work consistently, and my job doesn't provide insurance, and he usually doesn't have any either. I have life-threatening medical problems I can't get treatment for, and I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop. The next time, will he cripple me, or will we end up homeless because he won't work, or will we be walking to work because he totalled the car? I know he loves me, but why can't he think about what's safe for me? How do others deal with this?

Comments

Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 - 7:52pm

You have actually laid out more than one issue here.  The first one is the one you overtly mention - that of feeling physically safe around your husband (i.e. the book case and the nail).  Let me address this as best I can from your description.  People with ADD are, by definition, not paying as much attention as their non-ADD counterparts.  They also have a tendency to not be able to predict the outcome of any given action as well as non-ADD folks.  They live in, and concentrate on, the moment.  This means that your husband didn't tell you about the book case because it didn't occur to him that it might fall on your foot (it's unlikely he was aware that your foot was there at all).  The nail will be the same thing.

You need to be very careful, though, not to extrapolate from your experience that he "doesn't care about the danger he puts me in".  If you ask him he will likely tell you that he does care, but couldn't help it in those situations.  Remember, sometimes people have accidents (and, yes, it does seem as if people who aren't paying attention have more of them.  It is documented that teens with ADD have more car accidents, for example, than those without).  But sometimes and accident is just an accident.  I whacked my husband in the head once with a paddle tennis racquet (very heavy) and he kept the bloody hat that proves it just so he could tease me.  I also backed out of the garage and into the side of his car.  No, I'm not ADD.  Stuff happens.  What's important is the response to the stuff.  My husband's response to my backing into the car was to pull some flowers out of the trunk he had been meaning to give me (okay, there were a bit wilted because he had forgotten they were there for a day or two!), and give me a hug (and, yes, he is normal - he also complained about the long red streak on his white car for about another year...)

You don't mention whether or not your husband is trying to treat his ADD.  Really, your concern is about lots of other things centered on whether or not you can trust him and whether or not the life you have with him is what you had envisioned before you got married.  Some of these issues may be yours, not his (though he is certainly giving you good reason to be concerned, it sounds like.)  It is reasonable to request that your spouse begin treatment of some sort (this does not always mean medicine, by the way) to help alleviate symptoms that might be keeping him from holding a job or that are ruining your marriage.

I understand your nervousness about not knowing what might come next.  What I've learned over the years is that it is helpful to separate the truly big issues (financial security is a big issue) from the less big issues (likelihood that he'll drop another bookcase on your foot or somehow maim you.)  I spent many years wondering if my husband would inadvertantly lose one of our kids at a shopping mall or in a park when he wasn't paying attention.  He never came close to doing this, and thus proved his point that my concern and anxiety over this issue was more my issue than his.

Perhaps you need to tease apart some of your concerns so that you can think about them more clearly.  You probably can't make your life completely safe (if you were to try, you would never get into a car again, for example).  On the other hand, financial security (and that includes health insurance) is a basic need for most people.  Is it his not working, or your pre-existing condition that is getting in the way of health insurance?  You can buy it on the open market, if you need to, albeit with a high deductible, but with a life threatening medical problem you need catastrophe insurance - and quick, I would say!  Don't let your disappointment with your husband's work record keep you from making smart decisions about your health.  Separating your frustration with your husband's behavior from your need to get health insurance is a good example of how, by pulling apart your problems you may be able to start solving them and getting rid of them.

Your prose has an air of the hysterical to it, so it is likely that you contributing the problem that is happening at home.  The more hysterical you get, the less likely he is going to feel that he can experiment with treatments, and to try the new things he needs to try to get his life in order.  He will also be more likely to dismiss your requests that he return to work if he feels that you are not being rational or "fair" (I hate that word, but there it is.)

I recently read an article about marriage research that suggests that we far overestimate how lovely and easy marriage is going to be.  In fact, the experts suggest that for most couples happiness in marriage declines very steeply in the first year of marriage, and then continues to decline at a less steep rate after that.  Those who get through those first years do so because they commit to figuring out how the hell to successfully live in the same house, communicate, and make ends meet.

You married him for some specific reasons, and most likely those reasons had to do with his ADD - things like spontenaity, charm, ability to focus on you in a hyperfocused kind of way, and more.  He still has those traits, somewhere inside, but your ability to enjoy them is being obscured by your overall anxiety and the bad period in which he finds himself.

I've written this all over this blog, but it deserves saying again - try to separate him, the man, from his symptoms which are clearly both annoying and also are creating financial havoc.  With time and effort, symptoms can be addressed.

Melissa Orlov

Submitted by Sueann on Fri May 23rd, 2008 - 2:43pm

I did not see your reply to my post until today. Let me explain some of my concerns. The reason I married my husband WAS because he had health insurance. I love him, and would have gladly lived with him, but the actual legal marriage happened because he had insurance, which I needed. He lost his job 2 months after we were married, for what was clearly (even to him) ADD behavior. For a long time, I felt he had deceived me into marrying him when he had no intention of keeping that job after we got married. Once we found out about the ADD, I stopped feeling that way. By life-threatening medical condition, I meant that I have had a stroke, which left me with no long-term effects. However, they said the next one would kill me. It's vitally important to treat my hypertension. Major medical/high-deductible insurance won't pay for medication, and there is the problem of pre-existing comditions. If he was willing to work consistently, we could afford to pay for it, but I really can't work more than 2 shifts in a day to pay for what I need. It is literally possible, in my case, for me to die because he lost his job and won't look for another one, and I have to chose to eat and pay the rent rather than buy my medicine. I also need to say that he is taking medication for ADD and depression, and we are seeing a marriage counselor. The ADD medication, again, is all paid for by me working double shifts. This makes it worse because there is a major feeling on my part that this as good as it gets and it's not good enough.

Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Fri May 23rd, 2008 - 3:24pm

I am so sorry for your predicament!  And clearly what you describe suggests you could die from overwork.  So, he won't get another job, any job with insurance, because....?

Don't take this the wrong way, but is there a way to pay for just you, and not him?  This is, as you can see, somewhat out of my arena...

Melissa Orlov

Submitted by Sueann on Fri May 23rd, 2008 - 4:34pm

He finally did get a job. He was interviewing for it when he wrecked my car. We'll see if this one lasts longer than the last 6. He will be working in the mental health field, and they know he has ADD, and so they shouldn't fire him for ADD behaviors. Blue Cross/Blue Shield for just me would be about $500 a month, and not cover medications. It would be much cheaper for me just to pay for my own medications, if I could afford it.

Submitted by FreeBird (not verified) on Fri May 23rd, 2008 - 4:51pm

Hello Sueann, I was an ADD Spouse for 11 years, together 14. My marriage slowly eroded too, to the point that I wondered how the heck I got there. Frustrated, angry, shrinks calling me "hysterical" - because my husband was checked out or self centered and unable to be a partner to me or a father to our children. I asked the fundamental questions - live with us again, get meds, or I am gone. I gave him a timeline. He blew it all off and then hit me when I asked very, very politely about the two things I needed in our marriage. (him medicated and living with us) The bottom line here is that you are supporting yourself in sub standard conditions and being blamed by others that you are hysterical. What a crock. The solution here is to divorce. Lose the dead weight. I did that and standing up for myself was the best thing I ever did. Good luck. Don't feel guilty about your husband doing a bait-and-switch once the hyperfocus was over. You deserve better and being with a nice roommate in an inexpensive rental home is better than the nerve wracking uncertainty of this marriage.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed May 7th, 2008 - 1:02pm

Hi Melissa, I just wanted to comment on your response to the woman with the ADD spouse who dropped a bookshelf on her foot and refuses to work. I think your comments were biased and unfair. I am a professional with training in psychology and I don't think she sounds "hysterical" at all. She sounds scared and who could blame her, with a husband unable to hold a job? All humans, and especially women, have a fundamental need for security and this man is threatening hers by refusing to work. Yet, you blame this poor woman for not approaching the subject in a "fair" way which is ironic - she is the one not being treated fairly! To provide context, I also have an ADD husband and I'm considering whether or not to stay in our 2 year marriage because life with him is more than I'm emotionally prepared to handle. I find that your comments overall, tend to be very biased in favour of the ADD spouse and wonder why that is? I get the feeling that you're projecting, and allowing irrelevant factors to cloud your judgment and advice. Please try to be fair and reasonable in your advice. People are coming to you from a place of emotional vulnerability and your insensitivity towards them is troubling. Blindly advocating for ADD spouses is not doing anyone any favors.

Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Wed May 7th, 2008 - 5:27pm

Dear Anonymous - thanks for your comment suggesting that I am blindly advocating for ADD spouses.  One of the great things about this type of forum is that people can express their opinions! 

No, I am not a "professional with training in psychology" as you are (does that mean you are a psychologist?!) and I make no apologies for that.  I may be more straightforward in my opinions than you would like, but people post here because they want both my opinions and those of others who are sharing their experiences.  I won't always get it right - but my mistakes are front and center for all to see and comment on (again, thank you!)  Interpreting someone's situation from a few paragraphs that they write down is not as ideal as having a long-term clinical relationship.  But even with the shortcomings of the medium, many find the information here to be very helpful.

I have gotten accused of both blindly advocating for ADD spouses and being an ADD spouse basher (or at least letting too many people ADD spouse bash here).  Frankly, I don't see that these issues are about "taking sides".  It's about offering people new ways to visualize their relationships with their spouses.  And finding ways to respond to their spouses differently and more positively.

But I do have biases, and I readily admit them.  They apply equally to both spouses, and include -  trying to include empathy in your relationship; separating ADD symptoms from an ADD person; learning as much as you can about ADD and how people with ADD think; developing stronger communication patterns; and that ADD can be a reason that things happen, but shouldn't be an excuse for them continuing.

I don't view that having the husband accidentally drop a bookcase on her foot was "unfair" treatment.  I view that it was an accident that could have been prevented with more awareness - on the part of both spouses - of what ADD symptoms bring to the situation.

This woman has a husband who has very real problems that are really hard to deal with and in my note to her I told her that she should request that he start treating the ADD symptoms that are keeping him from getting a job and that are ruining their marriage.  I'm not sure that's very biased toward the ADD spouse.

The red flag for me, though, was her comment "I can't understand how he doesn't care about the danger he puts me in.  If he knows he had ADD, why can't he be more careful?" It suggests a classic misunderstanding of how the ADD mind works.  He can train himself to be more careful (and should, by the way) but his accidents do not mean that he doesn't care.  He most likely does care, but his ADD brain means he doesn't anticipate.  Not anticipating (or any other ADD symptom - such as distraction that leads to job loss) does not mean he doesn't care.  This is a really hard idea for people without ADD to internalize.

I will grant you that "hysterical" may well have been a bad word choice - particularly if you read it with a clinician's eye, though I chose it because of the "will he cripple me, or will we end up homeless?" comments.  You're right, this woman is scared.  What I was trying to do in the paragraph that you mention was encourage this person to take her fate into her own hands as much as she can - by identifying the biggest issues that are making her feel insecure (financial stability clearly being one, and health insurance being another) and seeing what she can do about those, while also trying to encourage her to put some of her concerns on the back burner (like book shelf accidents) to lessen her stress.  My use of the word "fair" was in reference to what he would be thinking, not how she was acting.

Perhaps you will go back into this blog with a new perspective on my biases (one of them NOT being blindly advocating for ADD spouses) and consider whether you, too, can get a new perspective that might help you deal with your own marriage?  I hope that you find something - I am optimistic that many of these relationship can be not only salvaged, but really great with the right kind of nurturing, understanding and forgiveness.

I invite you to stay tuned in and active - we welcome all kinds of comments and your perspective is valued.  But when you next visit, please make sure to register, so that I don't have to go and "approve" your comments for posting.  (That way you're comments will post right away.)

Melissa Orlov

Submitted by McSnoozle on Fri May 9th, 2008 - 5:01pm

I found this exchange of posts (the pychologist coming down on Melissa and her response) interesting. I have learned a great deal --- more than I ever could have imagined --- from these forums. They seem weighted by comments/questions from the non-ADD partners, those of us who are so often desperately seeking some kind of support and understanding in situations that often otherwise simply don't make sense to us. I know learning as much as I can about ADD helps me get to the "why" of a lot of my partner's behaviors. And with understanding can come acceptance or the ability to set new parameters, try different ways of interacting, etc. I think Melissa does a good job of framing things and, because of her own experiences, good and bad, she is passionate about sharing what has worked for her. Her thoughtful posts have often been immensely helpful to me to see situations differently and to fine-tune my responses and behavior. All that said, I sometimes feel that there is a "catering" to the idyeosynchracies of the ADD partner. We (the non-ADD folks) learn all we can, we strive to understand, and WE are the ones who adapt. There's nothing wrong (and I'd argue a lot that's right) in having a sensitivity to another's particular ways. But it seems it's rarely a two-way street. The ADD partner doesn't go out of his/her way to learn, understand, accept and adapt to my needs. It's as if "this is how he is" and adapt or leave. (These are not ultimatums expressed by him; they're just what seem the only alternatives to me.) As much as he needs my acceptance and encouragement and praise.... shouldn't I expect a modicum/some variation of the same? But history tells me differently. While a very kind, warm and caring individual when he's right in front of me (for the most part!), my partner doesn't otherwise know I exist. There's no inquiry into my day, or what work projects I'm doing, or who I spent time with, or anything. Another example is that for the 2-1/2 years we've been together, I've yet to receive a simple card for any occasion --- birthday, Valentine's, Mother's Day, or the especially delightful "no particular occasion." I have very nicely mentioned more than once that such a gesture would mean the world to me. I've even said it doesn't have to be a purchased card --- that even a handwritten note on a piece of toilet paper would be cherished! ;-) He nods, says he understands, will do better... and.... then.... nothing. He'll promise to phone and then I won't hear from him for 2 or 3 weeks. In the interim, if I phone him, he doesn't answer (99 times out of 100!), and admits to rarely checking messages. When he does finally show up or call, he's either completely baffled that I'm upset about anything or says he understands and that I'm absolutely correct to feel the way I do... and then nothing changes. He seems to think that telling me "But I'm always thinking about you!" should somehow assuage things. He seems to not understand that while that may please him (thinking about me in his head), I experience no benefit from it! The first 2 months of our courtship, he couldn't contact me enough. Yes, I understand the "now" and "not now" --- but if he wants the relationship as much as he says he does, why wouldn't he make some effort to meet me part way on these things? He can sure remember the promises he makes to other people! ;-) At times, the prevalence of self-centeredness (NOT selfishness, let's be clear) is overwhelming to me. Melissa is right in saying again and again --- we are responsible for our own happiness. I tell myself that daily and sometimes minute-by-minute when I'm hurt by my partner's inattentiveness or inability to make even a slight effort toward remedying a conflict identified. But I think it's also shortsighted to rely exclusively on that idea --- being responsible for your own happiness --- because we're human, and we need to be acknowledged, celebrated, appreciated, and respected. And even though ADD might explain the absence of those things... it does nothing to alleviate the pain one can feel. While I may be doing everything "right" to pursue my own happiness, and succeeding, I can still feel hurt/neglected/abandoned by my ADD partner's behaviors. Sure the Hallowell mantra is "ADD may be an explanation... but it is never an excuse for bad behavior" ---- but I think the only folks who truly "get" that are the non ADDers! ;-) Obviously, a generalization, but certainly my experience. And while the woman who wrote about being afraid for her own safety was genuinely distressed.... and I don't blame her for that!.... I had to chuckle. My partner seems to be an accident waiting to happen... I don't know that that's a function of ADD or simply peculiar to him. But it was familiar to me! ;-) Thankfully, he has a sense of humor about it. But geez louise, the man actually can be a danger! I don't like to ride in the car with him because his attention wanders and then so does the car... and he can't understand WHY he gets pulled over and asked to take sobriety tests so often! (He does not drink, ever). He's an amazing carpenter and handyman, but very few jobs get completed without some sort of injury to himself. I grapple frequently with whether I can stay in this relationship, and it is always heartbreaking to consider. I love this man deeply and know that he truly does love me. And yet, I am constantly frustrated and the only things that ever change are the things I let go of. Reciprocity does not seem part of the equation. I ask myself: do I have the energy and stamina to continue this for years on end? I have grave doubts. This morning in one of the newsletters from the Hallowell Center, there was an article by a guest authority that warned us about assigning a moral shortcoming to certain ADD characteristics. One of the things she spoke about was the appearance of the ADD person "lying" about something. She explained it in terms of working memory and said that often the person is recalling a few specific details and then "filling in" the rest.... in other words, creating/completing the rest of the story. Here's what she wrote: "It is easy to understand how people with attention problems may miss out on information. It is less easy to understand why they make up information and, therefore, are frequently accused of lying. But the literature on remote memory tells us that memory works by remembering a few salient points and 'filling in' the rest of the information with what is likely to be the case. The reconstructive nature of memory is likely to be influenced by people's desires, beliefs and the emotions associated with these events. This may give us some insight into the problem of the ADD adult "making up stories". It is important to remember that when we do this 'filling in' we are not aware we are doing it - we believe we are remembering it (confabulation). The threshold at which this "remembering a few points then filling in the rest" occurs appears to be different for the ADD person - they appear to do it for immediate memory as well as longer-term. Research suggests that children with inhibition control problems are more likely to have false memories than children without this problem. From my work with adults with ADD I have also noticed that not only do they seem to create 'false memories' more than non-ADD people but they appear to be more sure that they are right about this memory. It is easily seen how this creates huge problems/arguments in relationships. Couples frequently report to me that their ADD partner not only forgets to tell them important things but that they are convinced that they have told their spouse and can recite the situation where and when they passed on this information. Unfortunately, there are no specific solutions to these issues. Rather, there are a host of tactics that families with ADD can try to figure out what works for them. It is critically important that non-ADD family members be aware that these issues exist so that they can avoid assigning their own motivation to their ADD partners, children and friends." Reading that was at once an "A-ha! I get it!" moment AND extremely disturbing. It explained quite a few past conflicts with my partner. And yet... it was almost another nail in the relationship coffin. That bit about "they appear to be more sure that they are right" rings so true to my experience. Once again, the characteristic is yet another facet we non-ADDers must come to understand and accept... and in this case, there's nothing to be done about it! In his mind he's not "lying," and the professional explanation backs that up, and yet.... what he's saying may very well be NOT TRUE. Who on earth would willingly enter into a relationship with an ADD person if this one characteristic alone was present? Melissa is an incredible cheerleader and advocate for what CAN happen in marriages involving ADD. Hers has become a success-in-progress... and obviously not without a lot of hard work. I would be so interested to hear/read posts from her husband... to see how he perceives their relationship and how they work through things, since he is the half with ADD. Near the end of her post Melissa talks about "the right kind of nurturing, understanding and forgiveness" having the potential to make an ADD marriage really great. I don't disagree ---- but my sense is that the bulk of the nurturing, understanding and forgiveness will inevitably be the provence of the non-Add partner. And overtime, however laudable, carrying responsibility for all of that is bound to wear one down. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on all of this!

Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Fri May 9th, 2008 - 6:10pm

I think it's time for George to stop by...I'll ask him to write about his opinions.

I also think that maybe it's time for a forum or support area for ADD men who want to learn the skills they need to make their wives happier...sometimes it's just little things.  What do you think?  Anyone interested?

Melissa Orlov

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri May 9th, 2008 - 9:07pm

Melissa - that would be great!! As the non- ADHD spouse , I am the only on who has the focus to read all of this. I find myself forwarding selections in hope that my ADHD husband will find the time to focus and read about strategies that could really help him and as a result help our marriage. Keep us posted!

Submitted by newfdogswife on Sun May 11th, 2008 - 10:08am

I think a forum or support area for ADD men is a fantastic idea. So many of our spouses grew up in a not so nice environment and were never given the opportunity to learn about relationships and what makes them tick. IMO it is the little things that matter but when your spouse is all about outside the box things and possibly always been that way, it's hard for them to comprehend and/or do the little things.

Submitted by anonymous (not verified) on Mon May 12th, 2008 - 5:58pm

(from tiddletaddle) Hi Melissa et al, I think it's a great idea! But I think it should be an open forum, so that the non-ADD wives can have their input, ie so there can be dialogue between the genders! Tids

clancy's picture

Submitted by clancy on Fri May 9th, 2008 - 8:07pm

I love all this lively discussion going on this week. From my own experience as a person with ADHD who is seeking the help and support from a 12 step program as suggested by Dr. Hallowell, one of the first things I have learned is "we are responsible for our own feelings". If one chooses to feel hurt by their spouse's inattention to a birthday or Valentine's day, then one will feel hurt. But if a person can detach and try not to have expectations , then the disappointments won't be so frequent. Of course , communication is a must. I know my examples were trite but I'm quickly trying to post this reply. It's the responsibility for the spouse of an alcoholic or addict to "adapt " as you say,also. And the good news is,usually the partner begins to make changes too for the better. My ADHD husband's memory is exactly as you quoted . It infuriates both me, my daughter and my son. I'm finding ways of dealing with it, one isn't to view it as another nail in the coffin. Life with an ADHD spouse will never be a complacent one. Thank God. That would be pretty predictable and boring. Melissa, thank you for this forum on ADHD and marriage. I am learning so much. I'm beginning to think that a marriage with 2 ADHD spouses isn't as hard as one with only one spouse with ADHD. Oh and the toilet paper hint--- what a setup for disappointment from anyone with or without ADHD.
clancy

Submitted by McSnoozle on Sat May 10th, 2008 - 2:05am

Clancy, I'd like to clarify a few points you responded to. I also disagree with some things you said. First and foremost --- perhaps my use of "toilet paper" was misinterpreted to imply something "unseemly." I could as well have said a napkin, scrap of grocery sack, etc. My request has never been stated unkindly, with any ill-meaning or intention of a "set up for disappointment." It's been a genuine hope for a simple gesture at special times. And not ONCE has he ever done this; yet he has written my mother cards, my daughter, his children, other friends and relatives on both sides, many times, and on special occasions and for no particular occasion. Just not to ME. So I have to wonder what's behind all that. And I can pretend it means nothing to me... that it doesn't hurt. But it does! Our feelings are whatever they are, and aren't wrong or right. They're just feelings. I can't pick and choose the feelings. They just are. I CAN choose my attitude and my response to my feelings.... and I do, very carefully. But to deny or try to suppress any emotion from oneself, I believe, is not healthy. Denial is a slow poison to one's soul and spirit. That doesn't mean if I'm feeling something negative that I'm going to feed it! I acknowledge the feeling and try to work through it, always trying to find a positive focus and move on. Posting on these forums is a much-needed outlet; I hope not to be judged nor to judge others! I was also struck by your comparison to alcoholics or other addicts. An alcoholic or drug addict will do anything and everything to keep drinking or getting the drug, no matter WHAT the behavior of the people who love them. Their first and only true marriage is to the addiction. There is NOTHING anyone can do that will influence their behavior.... except what they choose to do themselves. You can be pleasant, excessively kind and understanding... or angry, demanding, indifferent... or WHATEVER with them and it will not change their behavior. I know, because I have a family full of alcoholics, for many generations. One of my sisters, a recovering alcoholic sober for nearly 20 years, often talks about this quite openly. I truly hope the same cannot be said of someone with ADD --- that they will do anything and everything to hold onto behaviors that serve no one but themselves! Expectations are a tricky thing. But in any relationship, whether intimate or platonic, business or personal, there has to be give and take. My experience as the non-ADD partner seems sometimes to be heavily weighted toward the giving side, and frankly, the lack of reciprocity wears on me. Reciprocity doesn't mean we have to give the same things, but it does mean both have to GIVE. And ideally, we try to give the other at least some of what he or she expresses as important to them. The definition of partnership suggests two people working TOGETHER. When one or both fail to contribute, that's a recipe for failure. And such a failure is painful to me. Does that make any sense?

clancy's picture

Submitted by clancy on Sat May 10th, 2008 - 8:16am

McSnoozle, I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I was comparing ADD to alcoholics or addicts. My intention was to give the example of a spouse of an alcoholic or addict and how they must take care of their feelings in their marriage. Their spouses behaviors are not for them to control or fix, but rather to control how they react to the hurtful behaviors of the spouse. It is all about changing one's own perspective to the partner's inattention and what can I do to keep me from becoming depressed. Detachment is just one way to keep from blaming your spouse for his inconsideration and rather than react the detachment allows for some time to respond proactively. I'm not suggesting not to have feelings nor to use detaching as a way to deny those feelings. Look, I too come from a family of alcoholics and my mother had her target with her inconsiderate daughter ,who never sent her birthday cards on time to blame for her unhappy situation. That's squeezing her behaviors into a nutshell. But the al-Anon program has helped me forgive her while forgiving my husband as well as helping me get my own act together without seething from the ADHD behaviors from my husband, daughter and son. They all let me down at times but I can let go now( well, still working on it.) I mean, marriage is a long journey and it will always be a process of two steps forward and then one backward but taking a look at yourself and what situations you might be able to control instead of reacting just might give you some peace of mind at times. The change has to come from you because I'll bet he'll never be able to change enough for you. And the toilet paper reference wasn't unseemly, it was the set up I was addressing. I know that set up all too well. That was all about control, in my opinion, from my own experiences as the one being set-up. Good luck to you McSnoozle. I wasn't trying to preach because I can identify with you. , from both sides of the coin.
clancy

Submitted by McSnoozle on Sat May 10th, 2008 - 12:28pm

Clancy, I suspect we're more alike than different in our thoughts. ;-) Thank you for taking the time to elaborate --- and I agree on the detaching. It's hard sometimes, though; it can feel a little like giving up hope. Intellectually I know that's not true but emotionally --- I feel the pangs. Al-anon has been a godsend for many in my family! My mom is a lifer - ;-) - and helps me along the path. I'm still trying to grasp the "set up" of what I said.... not arguing it, just trying to understand that. We all do things we don't realize, and maybe that's one for me to see! Yikes! Ultimately, we can only change ourselves and I know I'm certainly a work-in-progress. It's good to be challenged as well as supported. Thanks!

Submitted by Sue (not verified) on Tue May 20th, 2008 - 9:02pm

Hi all...brand new to this website/forum, but not to ADHD. In short , my husband and I have been married 17 years - about 7 years ago we finally began to explore ADD/ADHD as a possible reason for our seemingly unfixable marital struggles. I'm a public school teacher by trade, so I'd seen a good many ADHD children and their families come through my classroom. I'm really not sure why it took us so long, as it was surely a long, painful decade of marital suffering and hopelessness. Anyway, yes indeed my husband was a classic case of ADHD and began taking concerta and wellbutrin...Good improvements and encouraging! About a year into the medication, his/our counselor suggested that he begin attending AA meetings. So he did. He doesn't have a drinking problem, but she felt that his addiction to lying (about money, mostly) would qualify him for meetings.Well, after a year of depressing AA meetings (his words)...and no change in his behavior at home...she suggested he start with a Christian program called Celebrate Recovery. Decent bunch of guys, but only one married in his group...sigh...That was a once aweek committment for almost a year...While at home, no change in behavior -at that point I was caring for a 4 year old and a new baby... More than once I thought - geez! how come I'm not the one going to a once a week "group" !? We're currently down the road 3-4 years from that point, we have 3 wonderful girls - 3, 6 and soon to be 10, and with some definite Divine intervention about a year and a half ago we hooked up with a great Psychiatrist and Marriage Counselor (ADHD being her forte, she is herself, ADD). And wow! what a difference! My husband was finally able to break the bondage of lying - which was huge and still has me in awe a year and half later... The lying was known to our girls -mostly the oldest, so being able to experience a parent who actually changed a horrible, destructive behavior, my hope is that it will counteract the many yucky times of being a kid caught in the crossfire of an ADHD marriage. So....my question and concern is about my children... while I know that my husband's AA meeting attendance was a little questionable...I also know I have many of the same symptoms, etc...of spouses of addicts...as do my children. I hurt for me, but I can barely tolerate the thought that my girls have to carry this burden. I envision all of the sad, hurtful choices those who have lived with alcohol or other addictions of parents - end up making in their lives because of the dysfunction they had no choice to grow up in... Is there benefit in Al-anon meetings for us ? Or something else? I was once offered to join an ADHD spousal support group, but I decided pretty quickly that that would probably only give me license to husband bash and I declined. We still have all of the ADHD struggles with communication, organization, safety issues, trust.... and did I mention we are old...46 and 48...by the time we figure this all out (and I DO hope for us to get this tiger by the tail !), we'll be entering our golden years and our lovely girls will be out of our nest.... I just so want them to be prepared and able to build their own healthy (in all ways!), safe, love-infested nests! Any advice would be greatly appreciated... Oh! And major kudos to all for the availability of this internet outlet, the professional advice and encouragement -and of course, the comradeship of not being alone is worth...well, priceless. Thank You!

Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Wed May 21st, 2008 - 10:46am

Dr. Hallowell is a big believer that the 12 Step Process that Al Anon uses can be very helpful to people with ADD issues - in fact so much so that he devotes a chapter to the topic in Delivered from Distraction.  You should not feel embarassed to pursue whatever means helps you get the symptoms and issues that you have as a couple under control (as long as they are "legal and safe", as Dr. H likes to say!)  That said, it sounds as if the marriage counsellor was perhaps even more helpful?

You bring up some interesting questions about kids and marriage struggles..what they see, what they absorb, etc.  This is a great topic, so I think I'll write my next blog post on it.  My own kids have seen a whole lot here...and are still fine, but I will write more on that in the post.  Thanks for the inspiration!

Melissa Orlov

clancy's picture

Submitted by clancy on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 - 12:38pm

Hi--- I once mentioned the benefits of al-anon a while ago. Following Dr.H 's advice at the benefits of using the 12 step traditions I began al-anon over a year ago. al-anon was a convenient place and time for me to attend but it was certainly more than that as I come from a background of drinkers. I have learned so much and encourage both of my adult children to attend so they're more cognizant of the traits in the partners they choose ,plus they have ADHD and the structure offered is so wonderful for our disorganized chaos. Interestingly though, I listen to the others in the support who are there because of the alcoholic qualifier and I hear such tremendous exhaustion and control in their sharing. I think the word co-dependency fits here. And even though both my husband and I have ADHD and both come from alcoholic backgrounds, that need to rescue each other has overshadowed our relationship as well as our two adult children. I am the one attending the group and i'm the one who is learning to take care of me first. It is very hard but I can see such a difference in my children now. Boundaries are being set and now I feel that this is the second best thing in life I could do for them. First was helping them to discover their ADHD and learn how to cope and not perceive themselves as stupid as I learned to do. It's hard but the support is great. And it's a meaningful connection. It isn't about bashing spouses, it's all about your choices of how you perceive actions and reactions in your relationship. And when you feel like you're going through hell, well there are times when someone else's circumstances makes you grateful for whatever positives you find in yourself and family. It has changed the dynamics in my marriage. I'm really tired right now and I've been talking to 6 year olds all day so I hope I wasn't rambling too much but I encourage you to attend.
clancy

Submitted by AmyK on Fri Jul 11th, 2008 - 12:00pm

Amy K This sounds like perfectly normal adhd chaos to me. I know how you feel I've been there many times. I've never felt (provided) for or exactly safe. Persons with adhd tend to be a bit more unsafe drivers. Gosh I feel the (RARE) need to defend the adhd person. OK... First of all I think you are venting and unlike me, you are fairly calm. I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to crash the car that you love and paid for with student loans. I don't think he will cripple you in some accident, but if you feel so unsafe DON'T be willing to put yourself in danger. I have to think ahead because my husband does not think about what if.. (when we are moving the fridge.) I am 100% with you on the need for insurance you BOTH need it. I have to say one thing you are doing wrong if I may point out.. you are analyzing everything he should have done... DON'T.. it will only drive you CRAZY... I do it as well. Always remember YOUR safety first... because even though he loves you he isn't thinking about safety he is thinking about getting the job done, or he might be thinking about birds. You never know. I wish you the best . Daily living is a struggle with my husband and I know how you feel. Do you have any type of free services where you live to get your foot checked out?
Amy K