ADHD and extreme religious beliefs

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Has anybody had to deal with a spouse who has become more and more religious and now less tolerant of my beliefs to the point of considering me a non believer of God? He keeps changing the rules of how he lives his life and expects me to follow.

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I will say this... I truel

I will say this...

I truel believe ADHDers are more likely to be "very" religious and not really know the reasons why. For instance, all the ADHDers in my life believe almost everything anyone says and eats it up with a spoon...of course they don't do this with those closest to them.

My best friend who I believe is ADHD and she sees some signs but will never think it affects her life enough to do anything about it (sigh) is getting more and more into her religion as she gets older. Thus, whenever she hears a rabbi speak, she believes EVERY word. She is never one to preach or even pass on information since she is Jewish and you all know how hard that club is to get into. But what she does do is this: for example some of us were talking about soul mates, something she had just learned where Judiasm stands. She speaks very matter of factly that a soul mate is "this" and says "that's what I just learned". She says it as if it is pure fact of life (like the sky is blue) and that she is just passing on that "factful" information. It never processes in her head that this is a belief in Judiasm and not a true fact of the world.

Secondly, my ex-fiance does not have a fundamental belief about anything. Anything. The reason being that he always just went with what the crowd was saying/doing and never took some time out to figure himself out. Just eating up all those words as if they are all fact. Even when I mention my stance on something he takes it as worldy fact even though I CONSTANTLY encourage him to find himself. That's why I think many of us "spouses" feel betrayed is becuase our ADHDer said they were one way and they weren't even close to what they said they were. I think most of the time, ADHDers just hear a good idea or something that makes sense at the moment and since they are impulsive, this becomes their new belief right at that moment, to most likely change of course over the next few weeks. Really, think about it. As a further example, my ex is not a Christain but believes Jesus is the son of God. In other words, he doesn't really stand anywhere religiuosly but knows that according to Christianity, the religion he grew up with, he has been told that Jesus is the son of God. So frustrating. He just can't seperate the 2 and realize that if he is not religious, then it's silly to think Jesus is the Son of God.

I think the biggest underlining fact is that ADHDers have a hard time differientating between spirituality and fact. I am not attacking religion since I know most of you with religious beliefs believe they are fact. I am simply saying when I see and ADHDer and religion, they take what any spiritual authority says as 100% truth before looking inside of themselves to determine if that is what they truely believe. That is my experience at least.

Good observation. Can ADHDers look inside? Mine can't.

I have noticed that my husband is unable to self-examine, even though he claims to be interested in Buddhism. I have never heard him make an observation about himself, the type of thinking that I have-- analyzing that "maybe I am wrong" or "on the other hand"--a kind of weighing up of my actions and opinions. If my husband thinks it, then in his mind, it's true.

nrparents

they can look inside, but it's often hard

Sunny, my husband used to be just like yours in this respect. He had very little exposure to religion when he was growing up, and certainly never had any training in self-examination. I, on the other hand, was brought up as a Roman Catholic with a strong emphasis in self-examination. As you can imagine, we clashed on this issue quite a lot for many years.

Eventually, it occurred to me to provide him with a kind of catechism for self-examination similar to what I got from the nuns when I was preparing for my first communion -- tailored for his issues and for an adult. (No, I don't have a copy of it anymore, it was on a computer that died an untimely death.) That provided a start. We've also worked on it quite a lot over a number of years. At this stage, he usually doesn't recognize the need for self-examination -- it has to be suggested to him -- but once the suggestion is made, he can do it. He'll never be as good at it as I am, but he is slowly getting better at it.

But he tells me it is very hard for him to do. He has a real tendency to get "lost" in his thoughts and go off on mental tangents. This is a common problem with ADD, whether you are trying to self-examine, or to contemplate something else that may be complex. I personally believe this is why my husband also has exhibited the "if I think it, it's true" kind of mindset -- when it's so hard to think about complicated things, because they get distracted in your thoughts, it can actually be a useful strategy (for the ADDer! not for those around them!) to stop thinking after the first idea they have, put their faith in it, and let the world correct them if they are way off base. (Since folks with ADD often have memory issues as well, if they make such a mistake, it doesn't bother them for very long! -- which just makes the strategy even more workable for them.)

Again, my husband has gotten better at thinking past the first idea and trying to contemplate a second alternative solution or explanation or whatever, but I do have to remind him periodically of the need to do it.

Looking Inside oneself...Major Frustration

Had to comment on being able to "Look inside Oneself" as this is a large frustration for myself in dealing with my ADD husband....I am fortunate and after 20 years of his undiagnosed ADD and trying to figure out what his issues were....constant defensiveness impacting our family and marriage to the brink of despair....He has been on a role...From August - Nov. 09 he went o a CHADD meeting and I saw awesome changes in him. Defensiveness went down to 10 % vs 90.....Accountability good and I was very impressed that he "figured something out" and things were getting WOW better.....I never formally asked him why the changes( not about to look a gift horse in the mouth!) about it but I did give him unending praise & reinforcement... so it would continue...I never asked him how he made the positive changes as I was fearful he would not be insightful enough to provide an answer....

I dont know the cycle but now in December Im starting to see "slippage"...Follow through on tasks and communication is waning, defensiveness is about 50-50,( Still better than 90- 10 ) and its concerning to me.." Im losing that Loving feeling"...to coin a phrase....When I brought up the fact that Im seeing some "slippage" he got defensive and into the old pattern again....

My fantasy was that he would appreciate the feedback and want to discuss more so he could assess what happened and get back on track. He doesnt see how his behavior and responses illicits a response from me, either positive or negative...In this case, his chronic defensiveness is a constant downer for me.... He cant tell when its good what the positive causes are, and when its bad, what the negative causes are....

Now I realize its 3 steps forward, 2 steps back sometimes with ADD but my concern is never moving forward if you cant know when your existing behavior has improved and realizing why it has or why not.

There was one time five years ago where we found a book on intimacy and I asked him to read it with me....Wanted to see what he felt intimacy was....Not just sex....What a disaster...I tried calmly for four weeks to get him to read a few pages each night with me...He Couldnt get through it..Couldnt express or even discuss. Too deep a subject..... he cant express feelings let alone his opinion on what he thinks it might mean....at least not on this subject. He is perfectly able to do other tasks, generate mega computer reports & analyze an Excel sheet to death....but dont see him able to peel back the layers of himself to answer "looking inside himself questions.".... I think he is afraid of having the wrong answer? Not knowing the answer?

If things were going well as they were Aug - Nov. how does the ADD look at it??? Gee things are going well....Im not defensive,,, my wife is fun to be with....We're on a roll. I see good changes for the last 3 months verses the last 20 years and I have no clue why??? Sorry not meaning to be sarcastic ....

Now Im the type of person who wants to figure things out to solve & draws out a visual pattern of the behavior and comes up with plusses and minuses of each....How are we ever going to improve & move forward if you dont identify where the problem is....The problem is, I feel can see it, but my ADD husband struggles in this area.....to see the big picture, as he gets lost in the details....

My fantast is for him to be "pillow talking" in bed with me and saying...." You know AJ.... I think Im really making progress here on the ADD front....We're not arguing as much,. Im listening to you, and you are much more fun to be with....Ive been able to control my defensiveness better& how I respond to you by not taking everything you say so personally. Ive changed the way I respond to things & have put in place "X- Y and Z"...and I think these 3 things have really made a difference.....

I think this is just fantasy and the sad reality is that he reacts to situations.....to whatever FEELS good....I dont think he truly is able to identify what he is doing well or not so well, and as a result falls back into the same pattern....

I honestly thought things were going so well a few months earlier that we were capable of having an honest and open dialogue about what was improving, accountablity etc....Not so fast.....We're not there yet, and my wall is going up again.....

I dont want to paddle backwards and start drowning again...

Any thoughts Arwen et al?

don't be discouraged

AJR, it's great that your husband made progress -- and you're right that dealing with ADD is often a case of 3 steps forward and 2 back. It's terribly frustrating! But you have to keep in mind that it typically takes someone with ADD considerably longer than normal to cement a new behavior. It requires constant longterm reinforcement. It may also help you to recognize that it is possible to sustain a good new behavior even if you don't know how you accomplished it. Finally, this is all new to your husband, and he can't change by leaps and bounds, it almost always has to be done with small steps, one thing at a time. Just because he can't self-examine now doesn't mean he can't learn over time.

You mention that lately his newer, better behaviors have been waning. There could be several explanations for this.

It may be that the novelty of the changes is wearing off for your husband, and the need for continuing hard work may be becoming more apparent to him, which is never a very welcome development no matter how necessary it may be. If this is the case, an increased effort on your part to reward the better behaviors (even if they are not quite as frequent) might pay off.
It's possible that over time, you began to take your husband's progress a little for granted -- I know I have a tendency to think "OK, that's handled" and begin to expect it and praise less, and that's really discouraging to my spouse -- because to him, it's not handled, it's something he's got to keep working at all the time, so it really grouses him if my appreciation seems to dwindle over time. I know it's really hard to resist the temptation to hurry the progress, but I've found that a slower pace tends to cement the better behaviors more firmly, so it's usually worth the trade-off in time.
Your husband may have undertaken to change more than he could sustain -- my husband has done this many times -- he *wants* to make that much change, and he *tries* to make that much change, but he just can't seem to get it done the way he expected. (To be honest, we *both* have a problem with biting off more than we can chew!)
I'm hesitant to mention a fourth possibility, but I can't help wondering if your husband could have Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) like my husband does. This disorder does not make my husband depressed, it just makes his ADD very noticeably worse. His ability to communicate and follow through wanes during November and December, he's fairly spacey and lethargic in January and February, then gets really impulsive and irritable in March and April. May through October is where we make our progress, and then it's a struggle to hold on to as much of it as we can the rest of the year. It might be worthwhile to note whether you see any pattern of behavior improvement/decline along seasonal lines

You've been on the right track, and you've made progress this year -- keep that thought in mind -- keep doing what worked, let things stabilize and solidify over time -- once that's has happened, and your husband has become comfortable with what he's doing and where he is, then try to recoup some of the lost ground, and move forward.

Good luck!

Arwen Input needed: from AJR

In regards to three steps forward 2 steps back.....Arwen, I appreciate your input but its even more complicated that that.... While we have had good progress for 4 months August- November...with my ADD spouse... I started noticing behavior "slippage" in the last 5 weels since Thanksgiving as I call it... Less concrete communication from my Add Spouse, defensiveness increasing back to 50-50 levels which were unmanageable in our relationship..10 % defensivness for the last 4 months was terrific..... Just bringing up the suggestion of "slippage" set my husband off into defensivness mode that took a whole evening of difficult discussion last week to come back a calm level and "Ground Zero".

Ive come to realize that after that discussion, my ADD husband stated he was not able to identify what worked well and what did not when things were going well over the 4 month period. He was not able to pinpoint his changes in behavior that have been successful....He said I was calmer and caring and he was responding to it....I honestly did nothing different and was giving him all the credit for follow through and communication........So its either the chicken or the egg theory but now I feel more dismal, so instead of enjoying success, its not replicatable because one side doesnt recognize the behavior that makes a difference, even when he was exhibiting it.

I even showed him my post on these blogs where I praised him highly for his progress and for the wonderful 4 months we experienced. He totally focused on the one sentence where I described his "Defensiveness was Legendary"......Never mind the other 3 paragraphs of praise and adulation for how far he has come..... I was floored. He focused the entire evening on my description of his defensiveness and I wanted to focus on his terrific progress in a supportive way. His focus appears to be about feeling bad about himself rather than celebrating progress and moving forward to reassess actions and correct.

So lately now when the communication is lacking and follow through slipping, its "dicey" to even try to discuss what happened and analyze what we could do differently... I look at the discussion as a way to move forward to learn from these actions and fix to move forward. He looks at it as me dwelling on his past mistakes, making him feel bad, regardless of the learning experience to correct. We both see things very differently. Its like sitting in a dark hole with no way out.

It is now almost Christmas eve.... and Ive had to buy all the presents, wrap, figure dinner plans, get together with friends Xmas day, asked him to discuss & help for the last 2 days.... Finally got him to sit down this evening, and defensiveness again as Ive espressed in overwelming tears how difficult this week has been for me to do all the planning for presents, cooking and not have a lot of help until the last day.... I am stressed trying to plan a nice last few days of holiday for my kids under challenging economic times with some support but clouded in defensiveness once again....when I express my feelings. He was agitated and I did not feel like he "heard" my hurt or acknowledged my pain....

I am so afraid to go back to a bad pattern and feelings of despair. Any input is appreciated especially from those with ADD who can comment why the progress and no self realization with it.....

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays

AJR

AJR: sorry I missed this

AJR, I'm really sorry I did not see your post asking for input before now. I try to keep up, but sometimes when things get busy, there are more new items than show up in the "recent comments", and I don't catch them all.

I mentioned the possibility of SAD in my earlier post, and reading your reply, I think it would be worthwhile to really look into the possibility. There aren't any firm data about the extent of comorbidity, but studies suggest that SAD is probably about twice as common in people with ADD as in the general population. (If your husband's heritage is nordic/north European, the chances are higher.)

The timing of your husband's "slippage" fits right in to a SAD pattern. Less concrete communication is also a classic sign. The fact that your spouse "was not able to identify what worked well and what did not when things were going well over the 4 month period" is also perfectly consistent, that is exactly what has happened with my spouse in the past, even at the beginning of when we trying to treat his SAD when we hadn't yet gotten the treatment set up ideally. Lethargy, defensiveness, being easily hurt by criticism and not positively affected by praise are typical symptoms of the low-level depression that can often be seen with SAD instead of major clinical depression.

The way we treat my husband's SAD is with a combination of light therapy and antii-depressant -- how you use them can be important. Both are critical components to my husband's treatment, neither alone is enough. Together they can be extremely successful. We've developed a gradually increasing and then gradually decreasing schedule for both the light and the meds through the season which has worked very well. This year we are having an unbelievably good season, and for the first time in many years I have hope that we will not lose much ground in his overall improvement trend.

If you suspect your husband does have SAD, this is probably not the best time to pursue it, unfortunately. Your spouse is probably going to react negatively to that kind of idea at this time of the year. You may just have to "tough it out" for a couple of months, doing as much as you possibly can on your own to deal with the problem. This would involve reducing the stress on him as much as possible, and communicating about matters requiring his thought and input only when really necessary. Another thing I find helpful when my husband is beginning to come out of it, during the early spring, is to work very hard to avoid or minimize any "surprises" -- any unexpected occurrence. During that period, my husband is so volatile, anything unexpected seems to act like a burr under his saddle, so I work very hard to give him plenty of advance notice of everything and keep to a simple routine as much as I can. Also at this time, he listens more poorly (he's more distractable), so I make sure to keep any communications short, simple and ultra clear..

My feeling is that late spring would be the time to raise the possibility of SAD with your spouse, when he is likely to be past any period of volatility, but not to so far out of it that he feels like everything's already fine. In the meantime, I'd watch for the indicators and make some notes about whatever patterns or trends you observe, so you can explain why you're raising the issue -- and learn what you can about the disorder.

I should also mention that light therapy has also been shown in studies to be beneficial for ADD, too -- so light therapy could be useful even if your husband doesn't have SAD.

If you want any further information on dealing with SAD or the possibility of it, let me know! Again, my apologies for not responding earlier. Hang in there!

I am an adult with add and the opposite

Hi all

I am an adult diagnosed with adhd 2 & 1/2 yrs ago now. And I am the opposite when it comes to religon (and almost everything else) in that I am a cynic and tend to err on the side of thinking that anyone who is trying to promote their opinion, religon, product or whatever - is not sincere or telling the truth, till proven otherwise. I always thought that my cynicasm was an adhd thing (ie most adhd ppl as im sure anyone here who is one or knows one, can attest to) find it hard to even see another point of view - much less believe it.

I am now a christian (6 months ago I made that decision - after looking at various other religons and finding none had the answers for me), and becomming a christian has been the best thing for my adhd...ever. I used to have a wee tanty at least once a day, could never get out the front door in the morning without being held up trying to find my keys, or socks or shoes or some other thing - even if i planned out the night before and put all those things where I could find them, in the process of getting ready in the morning, Id pick up one without even thinking then not be able to find it when I needed to leave. It used to really drive me nuts - not just at the time, but was a major issue in my life. I was always late for work, never had any sort of 'acceptable' excuse, and felt as though I had no control over my life - basically as though someone was sitting on a toilet up in the sky having a big dump (a poo in other words) and I was underneat that getting it all landing on me.

I didnt believe in god, but at the same time called him a LOT of names.

Anyway I have experienced the following changes to my ADHD symptoms since becomming a christian:

Finding things. It sounds silly, or like something a 'right proper' god, would not do, but I swear - god finds all my crap for me when I ask! So often I will start to look - cant find it and start to ask god to help me find it. Often I do not finish my asking before it is right in front of me. Or it appears within a few seconds. I realised the other day that it has been literally MONTHS and MONTHS since I had what used to be a daily or often more than once a day occurence - the frustration that quickly built into a feeling of hopelessness - that I was cursed, and couldnt do even the simpliest thing like get to work on time no matter how hard i tried - then Id start wanting to smash up everything in my mess that was in front of me while I tried to find the needle in the haystack (ie my car keys). All my life thats been a daily thing - and I cant believe that for months after becomming a christian it was not that way before I realised hey - the biggest bane of my life is virtually gone!
Seeing other peoples point of view and being able to feel responsible and sorry for my actions. An rather than in an intellectial way (ie I will apologise cos I have been taught that this is what i should do in situation a), god has a way of making me see (really like the old adage my eyes were opened) when I have wronged someone else, in a way that does not get my back up (and I cant think of any way anyone else on earth could have put some of these things to me and had any result except me getting pissy and defensive) its like he just instead of telling me off, lets me really see...why it is wrong - see and feel it i cant explain it any better than that - except it is not like any other thing I have learnt about myself and how my adhd affects ppl. And because I can see for myself why something i have said or done is hurtful or whatever, I of course feel all the regret I should do for that thing, rather than a sort of learned regret.

Anyway on the believing everything I am told religon wise, I really do not think I would ever do that - even now - I have found a great church (and they did not 'convert me' I made the decision by myself one night and afterward looked for a church) who do not pressure or judge at all, but I still view everything that is said to me in the same way - that if it contradicts the christians point of truth, the bible, then I would not accept it.

I can only say, to be blunt and tactless (adhd - blunt and tactless????? lol) that maybe the people who are doing this blind submission are just desperate for some answer to the problems adhd has wreaked in their life. I can understand that - but hope those people will eventually find the real truth, and when they do, hopefully their partners, friends and family will notice what mine are starting to comment on about me now, which is a happier, more relaxed, and more empathetic caring person.

And to any adders who are looking into religon, please test everything you see and are told, against the truth, if it does not measure up or feel right - maybe it isnt - if unsure pray and ask god to reveal the truth to you. People are just people, and we all make mistakes - even people who are geniunely committed to god, may still say something which is not correct - as they like all of us, make mistakes - thats human

My ADD spouse led me to

My ADD spouse led me to believe that he was a believer but, after we were married he had no interest in attending any kind of worship services regularly, which eventually led me on a desperate search to find out more about God. Of course his behavior confused the heck out of me and I became obsessed with my quest for the deep spiritual truth about what was going on. All these years later I find out he has this neurological issue that he has little control over. Unfortunately, it seems to be running our lives. If you ask him, he's still a believer though, he doesn't practice and even if he attends a service on occasion it seems to have little effect on him. Maybe it makes him feel good about himself for a while. Anyway, it seems to be one of those important subjects he would rather dismiss so, he leaves me to come to my own conclusions while his continue to vary.

Religious Differences

My situation is different because I am the ADDer who has not ever been very religious. My wife and I agreed a long time ago that we would raise the kids as Christians. I go to my wife's church on Sunday's, she has joined and I have not, but I don't have any interest beyond the Sunday service. I don't feel comfortable at church because I don't agree with some of the hard line positions and transparent agendas. We were always a bit inconsistant with regular attendance, which was fine with me, but my wife always felt we were not going enough. After my ADD diagnosis, my wife started to get more and more involved, like Bible Study and volunter work and more. I fully support her in her efforts to explore her religious self, but I do not need to be more involved. My greatest fear is that this will be the divisional tool to create an irreconsilable difference between us. I am the same in regards to my beliefs, and was up front with my wife from the beginning of our relationship. I would not ever contradict my wife about religion to the kids. I try to ask how her Bible Studies went when she returns or ask how the volunteer work went. I know the members of the church are fine people, but I don't have anything to talk about when religion is the topic. I know my wife wants to share this experience together, but I am very uncomfortable in this environment. I feel that this is creating a massive divide that I am powerless to stop.

Maybe you guys could do

Maybe you guys could do something small as a couple? Like let her lead a praryer before bedtime together or something. Or attend the less religious aspect of church, like picnis and fundraisers and outings. Most couples have different interests, you don't have to share everything equally.

Less religious

I will participate in the picnics and things of that nature. My oldest child is involved in the youth groups and I am great with this fact. The church provides good moral teachings and I know she will be better for it by participating. My youngest child really does not want to go the the childrens class while we attend the main service. I fear she is like me in too many ways. My wife has not been pushing me to get more involved in the volunteer and/or Bible Studies, for which I am thankful. I think that one year after Adderall I am able to see down the road better, but now I worry about things more than before. I used to be the most worry-free guy in the world, now I feel like I can see a problem coming from far away, and this has been really difficult to adjust to...

Thanks for your post.

just my opinion & i don't know much

yyz: Even absent the ADD, the religious differences alone represent a significant threat to the marriage. The fact that the ADD spouse isn't the uber-religious one is probably a plus--at least there shouldn't be impulsive, poorly thought out financial commitments to the church. If she truly embraces christianity, you will be powerless to stop the divide. Her primary commitment in life must be to god, not to you or the marriage.

The combination of the ADD and the religion issue only increases the challenges to the viability of the union.

Has your wife expressed any opinions as to why she thinks an omnibenevolent god would afflict her husband with ADD? Perhaps her anger at you should be directed to the responsible party.

It sounds as if you are doing a good job respecting her belief system. Is she doing the same?

I wish you good luck.

Your opinion

Boy do I know it's a threat, now... My wife and I discussed our different views long before we got married and agreed to raise the kids as Christians and I would not contradict the church teachings. One of the recent sermons was about this exact topic, and they said people of differing religious views should not get married, but if you are already married you should try to make it work. I don't know how much she really believes ADD is more than a sort of "Excuse Diagnosis" for a poor memory and impulsive / bad behavior. Hopefully she will lose some of the anger and research ADHD, because she is not receptive to me talking about it. I have lost weight and she is mad about that too. When that subject comes up, she shows her anger about ADD by saying the "Speed" I am taking is 100% responsible... Respecting my religious views, maybe, but respecting my newly diagnosed ADD, not so much. I always get the easy solution to things.

Thanks for your post

My husband and I make religious differences work

My husband is a Christian, in a flaming-liberal church. I am a politically-conservative agnostic survivor of a Christian cult of the "wives be submissive to your husbands" variety. My husband and I discussed all this before-hand. I let his pastor marry us and that offending verse of the Bible was taken out of our service. I find it funny that I know the Bible much better than a man who goes to church every week. I kept quoting "him who does not work, let him not eat" when he was refusing to even look for a job.

I think those differences can work if the couple is aware of them and does not force the other partner to agree with them. I go to dinners, etc. with my husband. If I go to a service, like at Christmas, I do not take communion. His friends think it's odd, I'm sure, but the pastors understand my decision and agree that it's appropriate under the circumstances. Almost any difference can be accomodated if the people know about it.

My great grief about my husband's ADD is that I didn't know about it so I could protect myself from the consequences.

Forum topic: ADHD and extreme religious beliefs